Fix the Wirble

[RipChord929]

So a request to model a GV more in according to it's real life stats is considered whining by you?

There are so many aspects of this game that are "FUDGED"
to make them work, or make them competitive, that it makes
no sense to whine about ONE...

If ya want real life, then lets have it, ALL THE WAY AROUND!!!
I'm all for it.. But people shouldn't whine about one aspect that
seems to be a little off kilter, just because it flips their oxcart..
And then take advantage of another whenever its convenient...

What I see here is, Uberpilots get popped by newbs, Waaaa!!!!
Wirby has been around for a while now... Ya mean everyone
Doesn't know enough to stay out of reach??? You're Kidding!!!
Why all of a sudden, is the model in error???  Because some
goldenboys ox has been getting gored lately???

I'm an A20G drivin GV killer, Wirby is my #1 enemy.. They were
double tough at first, but I learned a better way to kill em..
Its still FAR from easy, but I don't whine about it...
I'll leave that to the primma donna's out there...

So now we have the IL2 flying tank, with its new "Nuclear guns"..
And the wirby is going to be castrated.. Just great!!!!

RC

[Airborne]

I'm an A20G drivin GV killer, Wirby is my #1 enemy.. They were
double tough at first, but I learned a better way to kill em..
Its still FAR from easy, but I don't whine about it...
I'll leave that to the primma donna's out there...

So now we have the IL2 flying tank, with its new "Nuclear guns"..
And the wirby is going to be castrated.. Just great!!!!

Yes, I hate you A20 pilots with your 6 (or is it 8?) bombs. A good A20 pilot reeks havok on armored columns, imo...

But I bet you get some altitude and speed before you go to work on armor, dont you Huge concept  , cause the easy A20 targets from a wirble are the ones that are slow, fat, and fallow hanging at the edge of a stall after lifting off with too much fuel for a base defend, to bust up the armored advanced- much like ALOT of IL2 sticks.  Its usually these guys that complain in game too. Usually the A20/IL2/CAS sticks- the good ones- just tell ya good shot and chalk it up to a learning point.

[Lusche]

There are so many aspects of this game that are "FUDGED"
to make them work, or make them competitive, that it makes
no sense to whine about ONE...

If ya want real life, then lets have it, ALL THE WAY AROUND!!!
I'm all for it.. But people shouldn't whine about one aspect that
seems to be a little off kilter, just because it flips their oxcart..
And then take advantage of another whenever its convenient...

What I see here is, Uberpilots get popped by newbs, Waaaa!!!!
Wirby has been around for a while now... Ya mean everyone
Doesn't know enough to stay out of reach??? You're Kidding!!!
Why all of a sudden, is the model in error???  Because some
goldenboys ox has been getting gored lately???

I'm an A20G drivin GV killer, Wirby is my #1 enemy.. They were
double tough at first, but I learned a better way to kill em..
Its still FAR from easy, but I don't whine about it...
I'll leave that to the primma donna's out there...

So now we have the IL2 flying tank, with its new "Nuclear guns"..
And the wirby is going to be castrated.. Just great!!!!

RC

So according to your logic, one should give up pointing out individual errors and request them being fixed? Just because other things are "screwed" too? "Fix them all at once" or don't fix them at all?

BTW, I haven't seen anyone posting any kind of documentation or proof that the Il-2 guns are "nuclear" or overpowered. I have just seen whines, but no numbers or facts to support the point. If I could find any data contradicting the ingame performance, I would post that too.

The turret traverse of the Wirbelwind or the ROF of the gun are indeed documented and DO diverge from AH2 values.

And please note I'm an avid Wirbel driver myself, and i kill al lot more WW than I'm being killed by too...

[Dadsguns]

Then maybe you should check into the TA. I've only been in AH for a month or two now, and let me say, as someone who spends most of his time in ground attack a/c or gv's- panzer and the wirble, you are suckin on eggs if you cant turret a wirble. I've had mustangs turret me, typhy's, spits, all kinds of planes- let alone the damned IL2's. However, I've also learned how to bomb ACCURATELY from outside of 1.5  and use not only a dive bomb but a toss method as well- coming from my other WWII combat flight sims, it wasnt hard to adjust.
 The IL2 is also a huge favorite of mine, and all it takes to kill a wirble with it is a little patience. Most mistakes that I see people make is they come in waaaay too slow and straight right down my gunsights trying to get the quick kill. They make SUCH an easy target. The guys who really make me hate life when I'm in a wirble come in from the sun, at an extremely steep angle, near vertical, and are jinking around- but they line up for the 1 to 2 second burst that turrets me, then peel off and consider their next attack if I survived. The other method I hate is trying to track 2 IL2's that are running in at the same time...

And the other scenario, if your trying to bomb them, and "its just too hard" take up two 500lb-ers, or heck, make it 2 1000lb-ers and pickle them off with a slight delay either manual or preset along the MTD (Maneuver Target Direction --- along the axis of travel, since they cant pivot) and voila, rinse repeat, and stop crying about these trivial matters.

Sooooo many things are modeled incorrectly in sooooo many games. Yet, I have the feeling that if every sim were modeled perfectly, noone would play them for lack of skill or patience, I mean, why dont we have random engine or component failures in the flight model? random track damage from overspeed for gv's, etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on. I guess in the end is HTC does it best to provide a balanced game that can satisfy as many as possible while also ensuring a decent profit margin. Nothing will be perfect for everyone, and odds are if you cry about too much, someday it may inadvertently-- or intentionally for that matter, nerf something you like due to the lack of balance.

Good post.  And un biased I might add. 

Some of you need to read a bit more carefully and pay attention to what some of the newcomers are saying. 

Lushe, you said "BTW, I haven't seen anyone posting any kind of documentation or proof that the Il-2 guns are "nuclear" or overpowered. "  are you serious?, everyone old and new in this game gets introduced to the IL in an abrupt and violent manner with its (nuclear) as you call it, gun., Its probably the first thing someone will see when upping a GV and as far as the lethality of it, its guns are deadly with a skilled user as well as a wirble being deadly with a skilled user.

Look at the big picture here, someone got shot down because they got greedy, made a mistake by not keeping SA of where he was and the potential of GV's near ground level around a spawn or field and got blasted because he lost 14 kills  then comes here to convince HTC or anyone that will listen that the wirble is jacked up to the point it needs to be remodeled, perked, castrated etc. instead of manning up and admitting where he went wrong.  Get a grip man, go get some training time and most of all, if you want attention or a slap on the back for landing umteen kills, go do like some of the others have done and sit at a spawn and rack up 40 kills without firing a shot.......  now that is jacked up.... 

Whats next guys, complaining about getting shot down by higher eny planes and how they need to be perked more....??

[Lusche]

Lushe, you said "BTW, I haven't seen anyone posting any kind of documentation or proof that the Il-2 guns are "nuclear" or overpowered. "  are you serious?, everyone old and new in this game gets introduced to the IL in an abrupt and violent manner with its (nuclear) as you call it, gun., Its probably the first thing someone will see when upping a GV and as far as the lethality of it, its guns are deadly with a skilled user as well as a wirble being deadly with a skilled user.

I am serious. Though I'm not sure if you understood me right, or if I am merely misreading your post now

First I didn't call it "nuclear", I am merely quoting RipChord. And I know the devastating effect the IL2 has in this game, and I pretty much know all the complaints about it, especially all the claims about its 37mm being too powerful.

My point is, I have just heard that, and not much more. Complaints and whines, but no one has actually come up with any kind of hint / "proof" that the armore penetration of the NS-37 is actually overmodeled.
Sure, I wondered myself about the lethality of the new il-2 guns, but after doing some research I have only found some numbers supporting that lethality and none to put it into question. Yet. 

So that's why did not wish for or even demand the Il2 guns should be fixed. But I found data on Wirbel's turret traverse & ROF that contradicts AH modeleing so I posted about it.

[Ghosth]

Granted the Wirble could use some minor adjusting, as has been already pointed out. I won't argue that case for or against.
It will happen if and when HTC decides to do something. Its out of our hands.

However, even if we had those issues fixed guys are still going to die to wirbles, and they are still going to whine about it.

Whats with everyone whining about dieing these days?

If you died, you made a mistake! YOU DID, not the guy that killed you, but YOU. Accept it, embrace it, recognize it, and learn from it. Try not to do it again.

Airborne, excellent post sir, and right on target.

Most of the guys that I see attacking my wirble are
A too low
B too slow
C attacking one at a time
D Coming straight into my guns.

Attack from above, never get inside the 1k mark, attack in pairs, like it was a bomber, the guy getting shot at peels off.
Letting the other guy get through. All simple very effective techniques that work.

I got 4 kills in a wirble yesterday while tipped on my side! So I had a very limited field of fire, but it really didn't matter.
I'd see the enemy plane at about 800 entering my kill zone and by 400 normally they were shedding parts. This with everything upside down and backwards.

Like it or not, the iL2 and the Wirble are very good foils for each other.
And like it or not that means balanced gameplay, and that means more fun for all.
Don't want to die to wirbles, then don't fly within 1k of them. For pete's sake don't fly straight at them.

Ohh and for the record, the Yak9T has the same guns as the iL2, has had them for years. Didn't see anyone complaining about THOSE guns. But it has a shorter clip, and is not as heavily armored as the iL2.

 

[Urchin]

No, they don't.

I've seen wirb tracers flying past me from WAY more than that. Hell, icon disappears at 1.5 for GVs, and they damn near tear me to shreds well before icon ever shows up.


EDIT: Case in point, I think I have film of an LTARD in a wirb firing his rounds up at an angle from miles away from a town, and LANDING HITS on the town buildings, almost from the spawn point he started at.

More than 1.5 for damn sure.

EDIT2: Your tests may not show the hit sprite after a certain range (this happens for me) but that doesn't mean the round has stopped. I've landed hits out far enough in fighter-v-fighter to not see hit sprite but to reap the rewards. The rounds are still there, you just don't see them land all the time.

As far as I know, that is inaccurate.  .50s and 20mm disappear around 1.5k, the .30 cal families disappear a bit sooner.  The only rounds that go farther are the large caliber stuff like 37mm on up.  I'm not sure what range the 37mm goes away at on the Ostwind, but I know it is farther than 1.5k.

[Bronk]

Krusty: I believe anything bigger than 30mm goes past 1.5.

So your 2.5 ww rounds are false.

Ghost:   Your citing the yak-t has one flaw. I fires HE not AP. That makes a world of difference when plinking gvs.

[Lusche]

It's very easy to test the range of the WW guns in offline mode.
Use the .target  command to see at what maximum distance hit's still register. If range is getting really long, bring the target back with .target 200 to see if there are really no hits (so seeing the hit sprite is getting irrelevant). Use .target 0 to "refresh" and delete all previous bullet holes.

I did that and found (if I recall correctly) my bullets were hitting the target up to 1840 yards, at 1841 yards there were no more holes in the target.

[WWhiskey]

Hard to dodge fire when you're going 350 in a dive in a Mossie with 13 kills, whilst he's just sitting there spitting out 10 grand of rounds, spraying and praying.

This game tries to lean toward flight model realism, and any of these would help it.

alright how many pilots landed 13 kills in "real" fighting, in one sortie?
why would you be flying below 1,5 k, with 13 kills?

[Dadsguns]

It's very easy to test the range of the WW guns in offline mode.
Use the .target  command to see at what maximum distance hit's still register. If range is getting really long, bring the target back with .target 200 to see if there are really no hits (so seeing the hit sprite is getting irrelevant). Use .target 0 to "refresh" and delete all previous bullet holes.

I did that and found (if I recall correctly) my bullets were hitting the target up to 1840 yards, at 1841 yards there were no more holes in the target.

Keep in mind that your shooting at a stationary target with perfect conditions,,, very unlikely you will effectively take something down at those ranges where the target is moving much less getting lucky enough to ping it..... 

[Lusche]

Keep in mind that your shooting at a stationary target with perfect conditions,,, very unlikely you will effectively take something down at those ranges where the target is moving much less getting lucky enough to ping it..... 

Of course.

But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible
And that's my whole point.

[Bronk]

Of course.

But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible
And that's my whole point.

If you do not get 800 yard away, the ww and osti share the FLAK icon. So I'm guessing people are misidentifying their targets. 

[Dadsguns]

Of course.

But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible
And that's my whole point.

I agree.  The only thing I don't agree with is using the nice way of saying an out right lie, "less credible".  But your too nice of a guy....  

If you do not get 800 yard away, the ww and osti share the FLAK icon. So I'm guessing people are misidentifying their targets. 

That is probably the culprit and more feasible.  He may have thought it was a WW but actuality an Osti.... 

Rant off...

[Lusche]

The only thing I don't agree with is using the nice way of saying an out right lie, "less credible".

If I think someone is outright lying, I will say it. No need for using a "nice way" of saying it in that case.
I know what kind of tricks perception can play on you when you are in combat. Many times I thought this and that happened a certain way... until I checked my film