Author Topic: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6  (Read 7574 times)

Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2009, 05:30:19 PM »
There is some weathering there, not visible in the pictures from photobucket.I did look at most 109G6 skins, not to much weathering around the cockpit for them either. It saw action about 1 year. This 109 flew from night to 11 a.m with other 109's to hunt down mosq.


Glad you didn't say something about to much weathering  :lol

Offline Motherland

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2009, 05:36:58 PM »
It is a bit over-weathered IMO. And there's no panel line around landing gear fairings.

Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2009, 05:50:08 PM »
The panel lines are there, but for some reason they are not so visible in the picture, maybe because the sun. Well, too weathered, not to weathered, i've allready sent it. All that remains is to wait for it to be in-game. Thank you all for the help once again.

Offline Babalonian

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2009, 05:55:32 PM »
I think it looks great.  Black doesn't show weathering nearly as much as a lighter color imo.  The crosses... those are borderline too much but still ok imo.  It looks like they've never been touched up once since they were originaly painted on... and that might be my only problem with it (if ground crews would touch up the crosses at all then I think they should look a little less weathered).  Otherwise I like that they're dirty on the black background, I don't want to see them look too clean or brand new at all.  The crosses being heavily weathered I think go well with the black background... I would think an aircraft painted black would get repainted/touched-up/cleaned a lot less than a lighter-colored aircraft would... not to mention how many times a mechanic probabley didn't even bother to wipe off some black smudge that they got on the black exterior from their hands and working on the oily/greasy inners.
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Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2009, 06:06:21 PM »
Now that cheers me up  :) , Well, i wanted it to be a "worn and torn" aircraft, i personally like it the way i weathered it, I did try to imagine that it was the last part of the war, no time for cleaning up aircrafts, they were all in a hurry to up/repair the planes, this plane only flew in autumn (mud/cold/rain/rust/fog) and winter (snow/extreme cold/wet), so i didn't imagine they had time to paint/repaint the airplane too much. I looked at many 109G6 skins in the game, IMO they look too new, and you must zoom to much to really see some weathering. I could have done a lot more to the skin, but i personally can't recreate real life facts in a 1024 picture. Too much details in it and it would be too "full". I preferred to skip some things, and keep it simple...black plane, worn out...I noticed that everybody has a unique style in the skins they make, i personally want to see the plane "used", don't like for example brand new crosses or decals, I've put dirty oil hands, smoke, dirt, chipping,etc, it will look at least OK in the game. I would send you the bmp file for the skin, to see with your own eyes the work, but that would ruin the surprise  :rofl

Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2009, 06:19:41 PM »
That may have been it, I don't do skins, so my judgment isn't too good on these things.

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Offline Motherland

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2009, 06:23:00 PM »
The problem isn't so much that there's too much weathering... it's just that it's not really realistic. There's a relatively indiscriminate layer over the entire aircraft, and though that's fine for a 'base', you really do need some area-specific weathering. On top of that, your area weathering doesn't really resemble much what you'd see on even the most heavily weathered aircraft.

To be honest, I feel that many aircraft, particularly German, in game are extremely over-weathered. Really, although aircraft did start to look weathered as time went on, in very few cases did the aircraft look like total chit. There are probably several reasons for this, I imagine some of which is related to moral. The Germans really did take pretty good care of their aircraft, early in the war they even painted over areas along the wing roots in black to hide the exhaust stains. This practice became more scarce as the war went on, but general cleanliness of the aircraft remained.

Generally, as time went on, aircraft did become visibly weathered, but it was not in the way you have it. One of the big things is that the paint, which from the factory was fairly bright and sharp, with a fair amount of contrast between the colors, would wear down and become darker and less sharp and contrasting. In extreme cases, and in areas of high traffic (pretty much just around the wing root, where pilots had to walk over to get in and out of their aircraft), the paint would completely chip away revealing the dulled metal underneath. This is very common on all Luftwaffe single engined fighters around that area.
In your specific case, the fighter you have is most likely over painted in temporary, or maybe permanent black. In either case, especially considering it was in use for a year, this would start to wear away in some areas and reveal the 74/75/76 finish underneath. These types of finishes also tended to either overlap or not quite meet the markings that were not meant to be overpainted (which was almost always only the fuel filler triangles and the crosses).

Another thing largely absent from your 109 is really localized dirt. This would particularly be around the radiators and landing gear fairings.






The big thing, in my opinion, is to remove yourself completely from the presidents of other skinners, not using their work for reference, and really completely on period photographs. This will give you the most accurate, and thusly in my opinion the best result.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 06:24:53 PM by Motherland »

Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2009, 06:26:25 PM »
No problem 1plus44. I may have it all wrong, maybe other skinners can say that. Overall i am pretty happy how it came out, since it's my first skin, and my first work as a photo eiditing process. Motherland, maybe in the future i will do better. :aok

Offline Motherland

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2009, 06:57:54 PM »
BTW... the stock panel lines for the 109 series are about as accurate as a 14th century model of the universe. I've spent a while getting them pretty close to the real thing, and I've decided I'll put them out there for skinners to use.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2dj2k2mtkaz


Also made this for anyone who wants some quick reference.

Offline Xasthur

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2009, 12:45:34 AM »
Your underwing crosses look wrong. Too big and narrow, perhaps?

Even the upper wing crosses look a little big.

The weathering on them is nothing like anything I have ever seen either. Only on late war G10 + aircraft have I seen intentionally 'toned down' national markings. An early/mid Gustav should be sporting distinctive markings.

Unless you have evidence that the night crews toned down the markings?

Did the did they even have the underwing crosses at all on night fighters?

Your actual crosses look like late war crosses too, should they not have the black in the centre? or the Black/white/black?

This is an important part of your skin and I think you should look into it.

You can re-submit a skin at any time.
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Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2009, 05:39:25 AM »
"Did the did they even have the underwing crosses at all on night fighters?" - don't know, maybe, all i know is this plane had them.

"Your underwing crosses look wrong. Too big and narrow, perhaps?

Even the upper wing crosses look a little big."    - Check another topic "Anybody have more info on this?", you will find pictures there.

"About the weathering" - Like motherland said, i did a "chit" skin, but hey...just the first one, will do better in the future right? Tho i saw horrible skins in-game.

"Your actual crosses look like late war crosses too, should they not have the black in the centre? or the Black/white/black?"  - The plane flew from october 1944 to last days of the war. ( I guess that's late )

Offline VonMessa

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2009, 01:07:10 PM »
Are there any actual "photographs" of the aircraft, or just the pics of the model that you posted?

One can't accurately reference from a model.  A model is an artist's rendering which is, more or less, an opinion.

Admitting a skin looks like, or in fact is, a "chit" skin, in the skins forum, is probably not a good way to have it accepted.


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Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #102 on: March 02, 2009, 01:47:47 PM »
Buy nr. 4 of "Luftwaffe im Focus", pictures of Grune 5 there. They have euros now.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 02:41:16 PM by Klauss »

Offline VonMessa

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #103 on: March 02, 2009, 02:59:25 PM »
I still have a container full of Marks, etc.  :D

Seems odd that the prewar markings survived repainting til late war.
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Offline Klauss

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Re: Work in progress "Green 5" 109G6
« Reply #104 on: March 02, 2009, 04:45:15 PM »
Yes, funny it's found on a late plane.