Does Anyone Know How a Gunner-Observer becomes a Proxy Kill?

[oneway]

To all and any...

I am writing a program that consumes event logs and does stuff with the data...

In the Red Storm Krupp Steel Scenario, their were two odd events where a Gunner-Observer became a proxy-kill for the attacker when the bomber was killed.

Given that this occurred ONLY TWICE across four frames and 12 hours of game time, and many other gunner-observers must have been shot down when gunning...I am trying to figure out what circumstances caused this to occur...

Any help appreciated...

Oneway

Here are the relevant log entries for the two events:

FRAME 1

aircav   VICTOR                                                
14:20:27 Departed from Field #40 in a Bf 109K-4              AhEventType.Departure
15:14:06 Shot down a Il-2 Type 3 flown by MAG1C.          AhEventType.Kill

MadKow   ASSISTOR                                              
15:14:06 Helps aircav shoot down MAG1C.                      AhEventType.Assist
15:14:08 Awarded kill as Xcelsior crashes.                      AhEventType.ProxyKill

Xcelsior VICTIM                                              
15:09:02 Departed from Field #20 in a Gunner-Observer    AhEventType.Departure
15:14:12 Was shot down by unknown enemy.                 AhEventType.ShotDown

FRAME 2

HOVER09  VICTOR
16:55:21 Shot down a Ju 88A-4 flown by KKEN.                AhEventType.Kill
16:55:22 Awarded kill as Fencer crashes.                        AhEventType.ProxyKill


Fencer   VICTIM
16:42:54 Departed from Field #68 in a Gunner-Observer      AhEventType.Departure
16:55:25 Was shot down by unknown enemy.                   AhEventType.ShotDown

[phatzo]

I don't know if this applies or not because its the MA and I don't do much gunning, I don't really know what happens to gunners........but. I was gunning for someone last night and they got shot down with me in the plane.
phatzo landed 2 victories as a gunner observer
I was wondering how that was the case if our plane got shot down. Sorry for the highjack but your question made me think about this.

[AWwrgwy]

Single bomber and not formation?  Gunner has nowhere else to go so he dies?

Do manned ground gunners "die" in the SE versus "landing" when the gun is destroyed also?


wrongway

[shiv]

I'm pretty sure that when a gunner bails that there's a proxy kill.  So maybe these guys bailed instead of being shot down? 

[oneway]

I'm pretty sure that when a gunner bails that there's a proxy kill.  So maybe these guys bailed instead of being shot down? 

Interesting...so if a gunner is in  a bomber and its going down...and he does not bail and either just lets the pilot bail or the plane crash and just rides it out...then no proxy is awarded?

[oneway]

I don't know if this applies or not because its the MA and I don't do much gunning, I don't really know what happens to gunners........but. I was gunning for someone last night and they got shot down with me in the plane.
phatzo landed 2 victories as a gunner observer
I was wondering how that was the case if our plane got shot down. Sorry for the highjack but your question made me think about this.

It sounds as if had you bailed out before the plane blew up/found yourself in the tower automatically...you would not have gotten the kills, and attacker would have gotten one more kill via proxy/your bail

Strange

Oneway

[oneway]

Another Question or Two Then:

What happens if you have a few gunner kills and you select "end sortie" ?

Do you get the typical MA thingy saying "landed kills"?

If not, does it then turn into the proxy to an attacker?

Oneway

[phatzo]

It sounds as if had you bailed out before the plane blew up/found yourself in the tower automatically...you would not have gotten the kills, and attacker would have gotten one more kill via proxy/your bail

Strange

Oneway

No I went down with the ship, One second shooting a p51 in the face, next in the tower. landed 2 kills.

[shiv]

Interesting...so if a gunner is in  a bomber and its going down...and he does not bail and either just lets the pilot bail or the plane crash and just rides it out...then no proxy is awarded?

Y'know, maybe I'm wrong about the proxy kill on bailing gunners.  I just saw some guy land 190-odd kills one night and it appeared that having a gunner repeatedly bail was how he did it.

[SunBat]

I'm pretty sure that when a gunner bails that there's a proxy kill.  So maybe these guys bailed instead of being shot down? 

I kind of doubt that is the case b/c I think most ppl bail out of a bomber that is going down. If you don't you end up stuck in the ground and unable to end sortie. So if this were the case there would be more than 2 during the entire scenario.