Coming soon to a Cop near you. License Plate Scanner

[kotrenin]

We've  had these in Chicago for a couple years.  Both for ticket scofflaws and warrants.  They are on police cars and Chicago revenue vehicles (guys that put boots on the cars.)   They can see both parked plates and plates on the move.  They can see plates on cars parked as close as 1 foot to the next car I believe.

[Obie303]

According to this,as long as the officer is randomly checking plates,there is no 4th amendment violation.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0407/license_plate_checks.html

The problem with these new systems is they don't check randomly;they check every plate they can visually acquire.

Right now there aren't that many of them so people generally aren't aware they even exist.But I'd be willing to bet the constitutionality of these things will be challenged in court eventually.

Mind that I'm not a lawyer.  In Massachusetts, the vehicle registration and the plates belong to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.  Based upon that statement, a police officer can check the vehicle registrations.  The 4th Amendment protects against illegal search and seizures.  You have an expectation of privacy inside your vehicle.  In plain view, the registration plate and vehicle identification number on the dash, does not constitute an expectation of privacy.  

Again, in Massachusetts, if you alter, forge, or steal property of the Registry's it is a criminal offense.  That is why you cannot hide or cover up the vin number on the dashboard or drive around with tin foil over the vehicle's plates.  I'm not sure about other states, but I think they have similar laws.  

I should not have used the word randomly.  There is no law that prevents a police officer to check every license plate he/she observes on a public way or any place the public has access to.  

[Rich46yo]

I want you guys to admit it now.

I'll bet most of you thought it was on the up and up when they just happened upon the car wanted in a stickup. In the video I mean.

[Sox62]

Mind that I'm not a lawyer.  In Massachusetts, the vehicle registration and the plates belong to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.  Based upon that statement, a police officer can check the vehicle registrations.  The 4th Amendment protects against illegal search and seizures.  You have an expectation of privacy inside your vehicle.  In plain view, the registration plate and vehicle identification number on the dash, does not constitute an expectation of privacy.  

Again, in Massachusetts, if you alter, forge, or steal property of the Registry's it is a criminal offense.  That is why you cannot hide or cover up the vin number on the dashboard or drive around with tin foil over the vehicle's plates.  I'm not sure about other states, but I think they have similar laws.  

I should not have used the word randomly.  There is no law that prevents a police officer to check every license plate he/she observes on a public way or any place the public has access to.  

Read the link I posted.That's where I got "randomly" from,not you.

"As long as officers legitimately observe a license plate, there's no Fourth Amendment violation, and they don't need reasonable cause to run a check."
"Randomly checking the license plate numbers of vehicles through dispatchers or in-car computers, whether the vehicles are moving or are stationary, does not violate the Fourth Amendment as long as law enforcement officers are conducting legitimate law enforcement business or are in a location where they have a lawful right to be." 

My argument(if I were a lawyer,which I'm not)would be no officer is observing the license plate,a machine is.Not only is it not an officer,the device checks all plates it can visually acquire.There is no randomness whatsoever.It's checking each and every vehicle.

[john9001]

some day the govt will implant a chip in all of you, for the public good of course.

[fergie]

My argument(if I were a lawyer,which I'm not)would be no officer is observing the license plate,a machine is.

It's a "machine" alright, and it's name is the System of "Just Us!"

[eagl]

Fake license plates are a big fad right now in the UK.  They don't even pull off the plates...  They simply use a printer to print out someone else's plate numbers/letters and tape it on.  You can apparently search for plate numbers that match your car type/color so any cop looking up the plate won't find anything unusual about it.

The mean part is that these people will deliberatly speed up when they see speed enforcement cameras, just so the guy who's plate number was stolen will get harassing notices and fines from the govt.  Mean.  Funny and of course a typical side-effect that will occur whenever the govt trends towards intrusive automated law enforcement and penalties, but my sympathy is limited because that's apparently the kind of society they WANT.  Well, they got it.

[gpwurzel]

Just to correct a bit of a misconception here - that is not the kind of society the general public want, its the kind of society enforced on us by the morons allegedly in charge of us in the UK.

Wurzel


Editted to include the fact I'm talking about the UK govt

[Obie303]

Sox, I understand what you are describing about the legality of a machine doing a police officer's job.  It's an interesting spin on the subject and I'd be interested on how this plays out with the bloodsucking lawyers.  Sorry, I don't know too many lawyers I liked or trusted.

However, I hate to go down this road an play the "devil's advocate" but if that was the case for everything, a machine doing the cop's job, then you could find fault in every criminal investigation that was aided by science or technology. 

FOURTH AMENDMENT [U.S. Constitution] - 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

This is directly from the Constitution.  Like I stated earlier, there is no expectation to privacy with a motor vehicle's registration plate and the plain view doctrine comes into play.  To break it down, "observing" seems to be the key word.  Did the officer observe the vehicle?  If so.  How long does he have to observe it?  If we get past that and lets say for argument sake, the officer did observe the vehicle, even if it was a fraction of a few seconds, then the machine ran the registration.  Is that legal to have the assistance of a machine?  All good questions in my opinion.

My argument(if I were a lawyer,which I'm not)would be no officer is observing the license plate,a machine is.Not only is it not an officer,the device checks all plates it can visually acquire.There is no randomness whatsoever.It's checking each and every vehicle.

If this is the case and there is no "randomness", then you cannot use the argument of profiling.  Every vehicle is treated in the same manner and nobody is being targeted individually.  Very similar to the sobriety checkpoints that are conducted in some states, but that subject is another nightmare in itself.

[Roundeye]

some day the govt will implant a chip in all of you, for the public good of course.

Don't forget the bar code tatoo....for your protection.

[fergie]

FOURTH AMENDMENT [U.S. Constitution] - 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

What if your car is your house?

[Shamus]

Much ado about nothing provided that the conditions that cause the alarm are tightly controlled, and that is where vigilance will be needed.

I wouldn't want to see the alarms going off for tag owners who had previous criminal convictions, lived out of the area, ID put into the system by locals for grins, CCW holders etc, but overall its a tool that can be effective if used properly.

Catch a guy abusing it and he is subject to prosecution, civil damages and immediate loss of all pension benefits.

shamus    

[Motherland]

I don't understand what all the paranoia is about. There're already identification plates on your car. Nothing is changing in their capability to identify you, just the speed and efficiency with which they can do it.

[texasmom]

[texasmom]

Fake license plates are a big fad right now in the UK.  They don't even pull off the plates...  They simply use a printer to print out someone else's plate numbers/letters and tape it on.  You can apparently search for plate numbers that match your car type/color so any cop looking up the plate won't find anything unusual about it.

The mean part is that these people will deliberatly speed up when they see speed enforcement cameras, just so the guy who's plate number was stolen will get harassing notices and fines from the govt.  Mean.  Funny and of course a typical side-effect that will occur whenever the govt trends towards intrusive automated law enforcement and penalties, but my sympathy is limited because that's apparently the kind of society they WANT.  Well, they got it.

I heard about some teens that were doing that in the NE somewhere (Maryland, I think it was). They were printing tags for their school teachers then repeatedly running red lights to get the camera-activated tickets.