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Author Topic: 109G6 Pilots, step in  (Read 2194 times)

Offline Chalenge

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 11:20:43 PM »
I ran into Blitzen tonight and he had his wingman and I attacked (alone) and suddenly saw the two of them turn and run... and then I noticed more guys around in ponies. Well thats when it went down hill fast with the 109s hugging the ack and the ponies diving in only to die and give these guys proxies... it wasnt pretty. So I left and told him where I was and then some guy in a spit jumps in trying to score on me... then here comes another bish... never did get to try him 1v1 but I know it would have been really really bad... probably for me but what they hey!  :salute
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Offline humble

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2009, 12:00:16 AM »
Given equal pilots the F4 and G2 will eat the G6 up 1005 of the time...
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2009, 01:24:20 AM »
My favorite 109G-6 skin:

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gavagai
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2009, 01:49:30 AM »
Me shooting Blitzin:





Quote from Blitzin: 'Your shooting sucks.'

Yeah it does suck to get shot!  :D  :rofl

This was the second of two similar hits within five seconds and I saw a total of five hits in the cockpit but no visible damage so what Skuzzy says about hit sprites being merely a guideline must be accurate.

Normally one such hit pattern on a 109 and I will see them explode immediately but I think the internet had issues or something tonight.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 02:10:03 AM by Chalenge »
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Offline Tec

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2009, 04:12:21 AM »
Quote from: humble on February 23, 2009, 12:00:16 AM
Given equal pilots the F4 and G2 will eat the G6 up 1005 of the time...

Grizz and Sunsfan tested that not long ago, the results were a bit perplexing....
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Offline MjTalon

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2009, 08:12:23 AM »
Chalenge, if ya want to settle this so badly please pm me for a da appointment, this thread is for 109 pilots, not runstang whine boys. :aok
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Offline humble

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2009, 08:15:42 AM »
Quote from: Tec on February 23, 2009, 04:12:21 AM
Grizz and Sunsfan tested that not long ago, the results were a bit perplexing....

The "equal pilots" concept is awfully difficult to evaluate. Most good sticks (including me) have predispositions and comfort levels that effect decision making. It's not till you reach the level of the WW's of the world you find guys who can put the strengths of the plane first. The best example of that is the spitfire vs 109. Again given "equal pilots" the 109 never loses to the corresponding spitty, its not even a close match up.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2009, 08:25:53 AM »
If you switch which pilot is in which ride, the pilot issue is equalized.  For example, when blitzin and I dueled the 47N vs the 47D-11, the 47N won regardless of who was in it.

What Tec is referring to is the observation that the 109G-6 seems more docile on the edge of a stall than the G-2, which has a tendency to dip a wing if you pull too much AoA.
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Offline humble

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2009, 08:55:39 AM »
Again thats very much a function of the two pilots. Put Blukitty in the D11 and see what the result is. At normal dueling alts the D11 matches up reasonably well with the N. While the N is clearly faster the D11 actually is equal or superior in climb under WEP and will out turn the N. So while the N has a measure of control the D can and will dominate the reversals given the chance. In a 6K merge with dueling seperation rules in effect I'd give the edge to the D11...

If you contrast that with the G2 vs spitIX, the G2 has a significant edge in speed & climb under both mil power and WEP as well as acceleration. Combine this with just about dead even turn rate (no flaps) and the spitfire is defensive across the board at lower alts. Its compounded by the spits all or nothing flaps, if the 109 can force the flaps out then the spit has lost any ability to manuever in the verticals vs the 109. The biggest obstacle for someone like me who's only an occasional 109 driver is actually hitting the shots.
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Offline druski85

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2009, 08:58:53 AM »
Anyway, back to the aircraft....

I could never figure out why guys would talk about how great the G-14 and G-6 were...until I took off the gondies.   :eek:

I now fly the G-6 more than anything else, and really enjoy it a great deal.  I know a lot of people want the 30 mm, but given the unpredictable nature of it (especially against spits) I'll pass.  If I want a hard hitting, slow cannon I'll take a K-4 up.  In the same time it takes me to line up a tater blast, I can snap off enough 12.7/20 mm combo to take a chunk out of my opponent anyway.  

Advantages:
1.  Generally underestimated.
2.  Very powerful climb with wep.
3.  Stable weapon platform.
4.  Pretty. :aok
6.  Style points.  Very few rides are as satisfying.  

Neutral:
1. Weapons.  Not the hardest hitting without the gondies, (keep em off!) but good enough.
2. Speed.  Faster than the F-4, but still outclassed by many LW birds.
3. Turning.  It can crank around pretty well with throttle and rudder management, but she's no F model.

Weaknesses:
1.  High speed maneuvering. (same with all 109's.)
2.  "Soft" Hub cannon.  Someone noted this earlier, and I seem to experience it as well.
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Offline humble

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2009, 09:10:06 AM »
Compared to the G2 the only area of advantage is the 12.7mm. To me the huge handling difference at unusual attitude and high AoA (in favor of G2) makes it a much better plane overall. Basically the G2 is a scalpel and the G6 is a butchers cleaver...
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2009, 09:12:50 AM »
Quote from: humble on February 23, 2009, 08:55:39 AM
Again thats very much a function of the two pilots. Put Blukitty in the D11 and see what the result is.
Yeah, I expect that blukitty would kill me no matter what the aircraft matchup.  The point was that blitzin and I, while still two different people, are not far apart in ability.  Many others also think the D-11 should win, but when we tested it that was not the case.  Experience always trumps ideas in my book. ;)

Quote from: humble on February 23, 2009, 08:55:39 AM
At normal dueling alts the D11 matches up reasonably well with the N. While the N is clearly faster the D11 actually is equal or superior in climb under WEP and will out turn the N. So while the N has a measure of control the D can and will dominate the reversals given the chance. In a 6K merge with dueling seperation rules in effect I'd give the edge to the D11...

If you balance the fuel loads the N outclimbs the D-11 quite handily.  The N is a flying gas-tank while the D-11 has extremely short legs.  Moreover, with balanced fuel loads, the turn-rate advantage of the D-11 seems to disappear or become very minimal.  The better thrust:drag of the N overcompensates for the better wingloading of the D11.

Quote from: humble on February 23, 2009, 08:55:39 AM
If you contrast that with the G2 vs spitIX, the G2 has a significant edge in speed & climb under both mil power and WEP as well as acceleration. Combine this with just about dead even turn rate (no flaps) and the spitfire is defensive across the board at lower alts. Its compounded by the spits all or nothing flaps, if the 109 can force the flaps out then the spit has lost any ability to manuever in the verticals vs the 109. The biggest obstacle for someone like me who's only an occasional 109 driver is actually hitting the shots.

G2 and IX turn radius is nearly equal, but the turn rate of the IX is significantly better (I've tested it).  What a lot of us perceive as the equal turn of the G-2 against the Spitfire series is frequently ineptitude on the part of the latter's pilot.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 09:24:50 AM by Anaxogoras »
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gavagai
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Offline humble

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2009, 09:36:43 AM »
1) In a 6k duel the D11 has a slight edge IMO, while the N has speed it's not double superior and will not easily escape a reversal by the D11. Removing the dueling restraints and the N has the ability to take and hold the high ground...but in a duel I'd pick the D11 personally.

2) The G2 spitIX is no contest. The only way the 109 loses is by either chasing the spits tail or missing his shot(s). The great equalizer is the hispano's since they are very capable of popping the 109 at 800+ in the verticals. A good 109 driver will never be in plane to a spitfire...

There are a lot of historical reasons that the 109 was an inferior plane (IMO) by 1943, however other then the gun package none of them effect it here in AH. Had the germans actually listened to the Luftwaffe and put the G.55 in production the war would have been much different. However as it relates to the game the 109's are actually far dominant to the spits (and most of the plane set) if they are flown well.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2009, 09:43:15 AM »
I'm pretty sure that Blitzin and I didn't have more than 1.5k separation during our D-11 vs N fights... But I invite you to try it out with someone you feel to be near your abilities and report the results to us. :salute
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: 109G6 Pilots, step in
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2009, 10:59:23 AM »
Quote from: MjTalon on February 23, 2009, 08:12:23 AM
Chalenge, if ya want to settle this so badly please pm me for a da appointment, this thread is for 109 pilots, not runstang whine boys. :aok

Hey when I see you next Ill explain it to you but you brought up the toughness of the 109 and I spoke to that.  :aok

Runstang? Ha!  :rofl Run09!  :lol
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