Author Topic: Perceptions of fight quality  (Read 5421 times)

Offline Bronk

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2009, 06:24:20 PM »
The point isn't the "work around", the point is that most other games provide it. 

Newbies are looking for those things. *I* look for those things.  Easy access to the rules/controls/ideas go a lot farther than any forum post or web site.  Frustration and work arounds can have them leave before they even know how good the game is.
Work around? The problem is the need for instant gratification. Instead of down loading the game clicking on an arena and essentially demanding help.... Try downloading the game get familiar with it off-line, checking with web page help when stuck. I know.. that is just way too much effort,  spamming country channel with "How come my plane wont move?"is so much simpler. :aok
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2009, 06:27:03 PM »
I think a comprehensive manual from HTC would be a good thing; it's a mark of professional quality.
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2009, 06:30:54 PM »
I think a comprehensive manual from HTC would be a good thing; it's a mark of professional quality.
So are you saying HTC lacks this "professional quality"?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 06:32:47 PM by Bronk »
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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2009, 06:32:15 PM »
If you don't fight how can you learn to fight?

They are shot down in huge numbers ...look at the k/d  :rolleyes: However if they step outside the horde and learn a few maneuvers that might get better, and have more fun. I always though living longer and getting more kills was a LOT more fun than dieing 5 times to ever kill I could get.

True, that is a good point, but it's a steep learning curve and frustrating process, and I don't think wanting to get a kill or three in one's first few weeks in the game is needing "instant gratification." Learning is fun, and leads to fun, but killing now and again is more fun than dying all the time.

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blah blah blad WWII blah blah blah. This isn't WWII !

That's a meaningless point, because it can excuse anything. Sharks with laser beams are fun once in a great while, but you don't want them every day, because the game exists within certain parameters and the gist of those parameters is WW2 tactical air combat, with some of the nasty and unfun bits (people really dying, flying for hours and never seeing the enemy) taken out.

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From this comment I get the feeling that in most cases of a 1 vs 1 you end up on the losing side too often. To me it sounds like you have given up on being a good fighter and so feel saver in the horde.

Every time I lose is once too often!  :cry  But no, it isn't that at all, really. I love a good fight. I do fly some big missions, but for a different reason. ("I love it when a plan comes together...")

As far as fighting goes, it's not that I always want an advantage, it's that I consider two or three folks minimum working together against a roughly similar group of enemy planes, or maybe a 20+ plane furball, with a variety of situations going in to be much more fun and interesting than endless 1-1 duels. You need just as much skill to consistently kill and survive in a moderate or large group, if you're willing to get in and mix it up against similar numbers, but the number and complexity of your decisions is much higher. However, the complexity of those situations open the window for some of the behaviors discussed here - for instance, the line between gangbanging and group tactics is a lot hazier when the 21st plane joins 20 others mixing it up than for the 3rd plane joining two others fighting each other. At that point it's hard to draw a bright line. At what point is it no longer gangbanging - 2-1? 3-2? 6-5? All you can really do is criticize the extreme end of the spectrum, but there's always going to be one guy whose definition of "extreme" is different from yours.

To me, that's just part of the action. I'm saying I prefer wide-open, anything goes action even though some will abuse it to a more stiff and formal game where everyone just flies around looking for one opponent to fight without any context. For example, as I said, the alt-monkeying irritates me, but I would rather have that than some heavy-handed rule trying to make everyone always fight co-alt.

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I have no idea who you are, and I'm not bashing you here,

I fly as Loki - I've just been too lazy to set up a forums ID with that name. I should do that. And I appreciate the politeness, but if anyone thinks a bash is warranted, feel free - forums, like ch. 200, should be avoided by the thin-skinned!

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People suggesting more combat, and you disagreeing with that.

No, I don't disagree with combat - it's the type of combat some seem to want, and even moreso the limitations that would be necessary to make it happen.

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From this comment my guess is your a Knight, and a dedicated one at that (won't switch countries).

Yup. And it's not so much wanting to win the war, it's the frustrating lack of options it causes. When all the front-line bases have VHs down and/or hangers camped, and then the second-line bases start getting whacked too, it becomes difficult to find a place where you can even up a GV, much less have a decent fight.  

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Also, if he's getting hammered as soon as he steps out he might want to learn a think about air superiority. As mentioned above, it the enemy has it ack ain't going to save you. Up from another field and start your counter attack.

Sure. If I get vulched twice at the same field I kick myself for being stupid, not the other guy for recognizing and taking advantage of my stupidity. I'm just saying stones, glass houses, etc.

Quote from: The Fugitive
It sounds to me you like it the way it is because you don't want to, or think you can't learn to survive with out your mega squad behind you,

I don't have a squad, mega- or mini-. There are some folks I particularly enjoy flying with, but I fly solo as often than not. If I run into you while I'm wandering around the map, I promise I'll do my best to give you an interesting fight!

Quote from: The Fugitive
To many people don't know "how" to play the game, they are too wrapped up in winning at all cost, HOin, hording, ganging, and running from the fights.

But who gets to decide how the game is properly played?

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2009, 06:32:53 PM »
When a single person enters a fight while severally out numbered and he dies he is considered a fool of sorts but if he wins he is considered brave. that ideology makes no sense as the initial act of entering such a situation is foolish to begin with regardless of the end product. Often times those that did enter that type of situation lacked the understanding of the whole war effort. There are exceptions to this but were far and few between but for the most part they were considered reckless and out of the ordinary.

There is one thing to turn on the face of an overwhelming enemy while on a mission or raid and it's something completely different to be the only friendly in the air and dive in to a gaggle..

While I haven't flown in a while, I do believe this still holds true.

No one dies, planes are free.  

Why not wade in and fight?
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2009, 06:33:00 PM »
Well, all the information is there, but it's not always organized well, and it doesn't seem to all be in once place.  So... yes. :D
gavagai
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2009, 06:39:11 PM »
Well, all the information is there, but it's not always organized well, and it doesn't seem to all be in once place.  So... yes. :D
I guess clicking help on the home page doesn't bring you to the relevant info.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2009, 06:43:26 PM »
I guess clicking help on the home page doesn't bring you to the relevant info.

That's not what I said, nor is it what I believe.
gavagai
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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2009, 07:03:05 PM »
While I haven't flown in a while, I do believe this still holds true.

No one dies, planes are free.  

Why not wade in and fight?

That's a good question.

I guess for me, while avoiding dying is no more the point of playing AH2 than avoiding losing was the point of playing Little League baseball, still, you hate to lose. You should hate to lose or you're not committed enough to the game. It's a matter of balance. If losing ruins your whole day, or incites you to cheat or to play dirty so you never learn how to win clean, or if you can't stand to risk losing in order to get a shot at winning, you hate it too much. And if you never lost it would be boring and pointless... but still... you hate to lose.

It's one of those paradoxes of the human spirit, I guess.

Offline Crash Orange

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2009, 07:14:58 PM »
Perhaps you need a .squelch forums command..... :devil

Nah, I don't take it that seriously. It's just something to do, the arguments don't affect my enjoyment of the game one way or another, but I have learned a lot of things I find useful.

Some people just seem to get so worked up in here!

Offline ScatterFire

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2009, 07:22:28 PM »
I guess clicking help on the home page doesn't bring you to the relevant info.
Actually no.  But then you are purposely being difficult

Examples, you are going to say next.....

Want to know how to Zoom?  Cool, click Z.  But wait, you can use your  [ ] keys to get better control or closer when you are using a GV?  Hmm, reference location in the official help section: using Shore Batteries :huh

I'm not saying the information isn't there, I'm saying that it isn't easy to get too.  Do you want people flying?  Or do you want them searching for the information they want.  MANUALS are a standard part of programs, the lack of one in AcesHigh does reflect on it.  The overall goal is for players to be more versed with the game, how it works and what they can do.  Adding a manual will increase those areas, while the game itself alters slowly enough that it wouldn't take undo effort on HTC's part to keep one up to date.

As far as me figuring out things by myself, been there done that, don't mistake the lack of age in this account as if I've never played before. Plus I've been playing Eve Online for the last 3.5 years.  Talk about lack of information in official channels  :rolleyes:

AH2 and Eve are about the only programs I can't snap back at someone to RTFM...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 07:24:46 PM by ScatterFire »
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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2009, 07:57:35 PM »
I just don't understand why people are complaining...

If you want better game experience take the the time to pass your knowledge to the people who are not hacking it according to you standards....
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Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2009, 07:59:00 PM »
umm... I'm just kinda jumping and reading info, but how about like a quick tutorial on how to take off when you start? It's mandatory, just tells you what to do.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2009, 08:57:09 PM »
You don't see any relation to lack of knowledge and lack of readily available information?

I found it funny, the "but even tho they are tuned" section.  Tuning the radio and using it is probably the largest reason that newer players don't ask for help  ;)Or you can do what I did and use a crawler program that went through the entire help site and turned it into a PDF.  That doesn't retract from the point that it should already be available, without the potential user having to do it themselves.

There is an actual "help" radio channel, and you have to tune it to use it. This guy just didn't want to bother with setting things up right, he just wanted to fly and kill things. He was answering, but I guess I didn't have any "codes" to make things easier so he wasn't interested.

If you have a pdf file of the help page, post it. Maybe someone will find it useful, maybe they will post it as a downloadable file on the help page.

umm... I'm just kinda jumping and reading info, but how about like a quick tutorial on how to take off when you start? It's mandatory, just tells you what to do.

Working with the training team I have come up with a number of training tutorials in a flash setup. Murdr has 3 of the 6 poster on the Trainers Files. I would love to do an interactive one walking you through the first flight, but the files would be huge. Seeing as this a "downloaded" game and not a box set you don't have the same luxuries. The information is there for those who wish to find it.  Todays player expects to jump in learn a couple of key commands and be on their way. My sons have hundreds of games and I think each and every instruction manual is in pristine condition. They have never been opened. Todays player just doesn't want to use the information that is available, its just the way they play. Its the games they have played before that have molded them into this type of player.

Aces High is much more involved as a game. The game play mechanics just in controls is daunting. Have you ever tried to find an open key to remap something? Good luck, most of them are used already. Then there are the game play mechanics themselves. Tactical, strategic, offensive, defensive, air, land, sea. This stuff can't be learned over night, but most player these days come in learn a couple things and stop.....its just too much trouble. They can succeed as they are in their horde, or under their NOE, or with their "gang". Being the best turd in the bowl still leaves you as only a turd.   
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 09:00:58 PM by The Fugitive »

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2009, 10:05:26 PM »
I just don't understand why people are complaining...

If you want better game experience take the the time to pass your knowledge to the people who are not hacking it according to you standards....

I think if you look at the majority of the folks who have concerns, you'll find they've done exactly what you've suggested and then some.
Dan/CorkyJr
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