Author Topic: Rollrates (Read 7240 times)

Jekyll · « **Reply #75 on:** January 20, 2001, 08:54:00 AM »

I'm aware of that gray, but any way you look at it, there is something definitely wrong with the AH rollrates it seems.

I could understand it if ALL aircraft rolled too fast, or too slow, but of course the 190 is the exception

Parity would be nice, wouldn't it?

Widewing · « **Reply #76 on:** January 20, 2001, 10:23:00 PM »

Jekyll asked:
"Anyone out there have roll data for the Hog or other AH planes across this speed range?"

Yeah, for boosted and unboosted P-38 go to: http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/RollChart.html

My regards,

Widewing

Citabria · « **Reply #77 on:** January 20, 2001, 10:55:00 PM »

great info

Jekyll · « **Reply #78 on:** January 21, 2001, 12:50:00 AM »

Hmm, the P38L also seems to suffer from the 'Allied Rollrate Disease' in AH.

And yes, I noticed the info was for 'True Airspeed'. At 5k though, the difference is marginal.

J_A_B · « **Reply #79 on:** January 21, 2001, 10:35:00 PM »

I find it promising that this thread has not degenerated into a flamewar

Also, didn't the P-51D have a slightly higher rollrate than the P-51B because of re-worked ailerons? That might explain part of the reason the AH one rolls somewhat better.

J_A_B

Jekyll · « **Reply #80 on:** January 22, 2001, 02:07:00 AM »

You could be right J A B. Hopefully someone can come up with data to solve the question.

Jochen · « **Reply #81 on:** January 22, 2001, 04:46:00 AM »

quote]The Typhoon sure jumps out at me because it was known for being a poor roller and I can't recall of the top of my head where I got the information I used on it. I'm actually surprised that it rolls that well in AH. I'll have to take a look at that when I get a chance.[/quote]

That would be great! The error seems to be quite large so maybe there is something wrong.

I would also think that Spitfire could be looked upon, I find it to roll too well in high speeds for plane that did have very thin wing (flexes during roll).

Great thread alltogether!

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Jochen · « **Reply #82 on:** January 22, 2001, 04:48:00 AM »

quote]The Typhoon sure jumps out at me because it was known for being a poor roller and I can't recall of the top of my head where I got the information I used on it. I'm actually surprised that it rolls that well in AH. I'll have to take a look at that when I get a chance.[/quote]

That would be great! The error seems to be quite large so maybe there is something wrong.

I would also think that Spitfire could be looked upon, I find it to roll too well in high speeds for plane that did have very thin wing (flexes during roll).

Great thread alltogether!

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

StSanta · « **Reply #83 on:** January 22, 2001, 06:26:00 AM »

Hm, the documents I've seen here on this board do not indicate such a vast drop off in roll rate for the FW.

Migh have interpreted them wrong, but they dinnae mention this, which they ought to if it was so dramatic

Maybe they dinnae dare to take her up past 300 mph

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"We are the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldritch

Jigster · « **Reply #84 on:** January 22, 2001, 02:28:00 PM »

Jekyll, I posted the P-51D mod further up in the thread. I know the canvas link did improve rollrate but I'm not sure to what extent. I believe most gains were from 250mph and lower.

I did some looking into the Zeros the US captured and tested, there were only a handfull due Zero's light construction that made it very hard to ship or capture intact.

The evaluation on Koga's Zero stated that the ailerons locked over 200mph (A6M2) and rolling was practically impossible with the exception torque reaction. (Which is probably and exaggeration, but...) This chart doesn't appear to be a A6M2, the roll performence looks to be either the A6M5 with the missing tips(along with a few other mods for testing) that allowed slightly extended preformence past 250 MPH while keeping the same roll performence (and perhaps slightly better) below 200 MPH and degrading turning ability slightly.

The US also added counterweights to the ailerons for testing, and I believe this might be the one used for this chart.

Jekyll · « **Reply #85 on:** January 23, 2001, 02:33:00 AM »

How about this quote?

"I was sure I could easily bag the opposing fighter leader, so I left my wingmen behind and followed the Zeke down. He violently twisted and turned as we screamed down from the heavens. It was dogma that the Zeke's ailerons got unusually stiff at high speeds, but I saw no evidence of that as the nimble fighter kept a step or two away from my gunsight pipper. To the contrary, at my own high speed, my ailerons overbalanced and I needed a light but firm touch to avoid going into an uncontrollable wing roll."

Now this was November 1943, and the writer was Tom Blackburn, Commander of VF-17.

So the questions arise: Might these have been the clipped tip Zeke 32's?

And when is 'uncontrollable wing roll' being modelled in AH for Corsairs over 300 mph

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=357th Pony Express=
Aces High Training Corps