The war is about to come to England. (serious stuff - pls read)

[thrila]

Holmes, I think he lives in the united states of mexico.  

[Anaxogoras]

Just because your government has told you that they have given you a right doesn't make it so.  They have granted you a privilege that they can revoke whenever they see fit.  Governments don't grant rights; they acknowledge preexisting rights.  Anything that a government grants is not a right but a privilege that can be taken away.  This is the fundamental difference between our cultures and the main reason we don't understand each others systems of government.  You are a subject and I am a citizen.  The subtleties make all the difference.

Funny, then, that we got the idea from an English philosopher.

[RTHolmes]

lets not forget the Scots (Hume, Smith) and the Germans (Kant, Hegel)

[BigPlay]

I don't think it's fair to judge a religion based on the actions of a few of its followers, whether those followers be headsets or Crusaders.  I DO think it's perfectly valid to judge a religion based on the actions of its founder, and it doesn't take a very long study of Christ or Muhammad to note some striking differences...

Muhammad's resume included murder, war, likely date-rape (if you can even call killing a woman's husband and marrying her the same day a "date")...

Christ?  Well, he knocked over a table and pwned a fig tree.

Both of their followers have done horrible things over the years, but only one of the founders might be proud...

The big problem is here in the west, we don't burn or ban books.  So you can get a more complete picture, if you're interested, and not just a church-approved story.

Even so, I've said it before and I'll say it again: the vast majority of Muslims are more than likely the same as the vast majority of Christians: followers by title only.  Just think of how many "Christians" you see that consider Christmas the most important holiday.

Dude if your going to make speculations about religion you need to do some research. First the Koran does teach that if you do not follow Mohammad then you are an infidel thus requiring death. just because ALL Muslims are not radicals doesn't mean that they are not supporters of Islam. Ask any Muslim about Israel and they all come up with the same answer which has little to do with tolerance. Also if you did know anything about Christianity then you would know that Easter is the most important celebrated Christian event. Christmas was never created by Christians. Christmas had pagan roots that basically come from the Emperor Constantine. Jesus wasn't born in December. However most Christians celebrate Christmas as a holiday rather then the true birth of Christ. I know of no horrible persecution done in the name of the Lord in the last 100 or so years. However  Muslim generated atrocities are being done as we speak in Africa, the Philippines and the middle east. There is a huge difference in doctrine between the two religions.

[bongaroo]

Dude if your going to make speculations about religion you need to do some research. First the Koran does teach that if you do not follow Mohammad then you are an infidel thus requiring death. just because ALL Muslims are not radicals doesn't mean that they are not supporters of Islam. Ask any Muslim about Israel and they all come up with the same answer which has little to do with tolerance. Also if you did know anything about Christianity then you would know that Easter is the most important celebrated Christian event. Christmas was never created by Christians. Christmas had pagan roots that basically come from the Emperor Constantine. Jesus wasn't born in December. However most Christians celebrate Christmas as a holiday rather then the true birth of Christ. I know of no horrible persecution done in the name of the Lord in the last 100 or so years. However  Muslim generated atrocities are being done as we speak in Africa, the Philippines and the middle east. There is a huge difference in doctrine between the two religions.

Research eh?  No horrible persecution done in the name of Christ in the last 100 or so years?

Do a simple google of "christian warlord".

Here's one, he's an ordained priest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Nkunda

There's plenty more committing all kinds of atrocities.  I think you need to take a step back and rethink what you've been taught. 

[CptTrips]

Prayer rugs on the lawns of Eaton... a cresant replacing the cross atop St. Paul's.....

http://www.islam-watch.org/NoSharia/PreventEuropeIslamization1.htm

Wab

[Yossarian]

Prayer rugs on the lawns of Eaton... a cresant replacing the cross atop St. Paul's.....

http://www.islam-watch.org/NoSharia/PreventEuropeIslamization1.htm

Wab

That is a crap website to be using as a source of information about Islam.

Just looking at it's name tells me that it will NOT be unbiased (or give the Muslims a fair representation) - i.e. it's useless for a reliable source.  Unless, of course, you're looking for something that tells you what you think, regardless of what the truth may/may not be.

AKWabbit, sorry for taking this semi-personal now, but you seem to have a very low opinion of Muslims.  I actually have quite a high opinion of them in general (aside from a minority of terrorists who seem to give the entire religion a bad name), however I still attempt to judge them from a neutral standpoint - and what I've seen hasn't caused me to think less of them.  You on the other hand seem to be determined to present them in a negative light, and choose websites which support your views - leading me to think that you're so certain of your own correctness that you won't listen to/read anything which supports Muslims/Islam.

Basically, please try and use some (relatively) unbiased websites as sources.

[BigPlay]

Research eh?  No horrible persecution done in the name of Christ in the last 100 or so years?

Do a simple google of "christian warlord".

Here's one, he's an ordained priest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Nkunda

There's plenty more committing all kinds of atrocities.  I think you need to take a step back and rethink what you've been taught. 

Just because this kook claims to be Christian doesn't mean he is. Jim Jones did, David Koresh did. I never at any point considered any of them to be lead by God or to be a representative of God . Also just because he claims he represents God, (the Christian God ) lends me to believe he isn't. Did God appoint him to do these things. Does the Christian community embrace these actions? I don't nor would any of the folks I would call followers of Christ do. Like I said every Muslim believes we are infidels it's their doctrain, just ask one. As far as being taught , I study the word and come to conclusions on my own with assistants from people who I know have sound doctrain. I don't let people do my thinking or me. That's the difference between reading the Bible or letting someone else read it for me. The Bible instructs a believer to test the things of God, to determine if in fact he is a follower and not some nut job. There are rules to adhere by in all religions and when people who contradict the Bible in the name of Christianity we who are believers should be able to discern between the sheep and the goats

[Vudak]

Dude if your going to make speculations about religion you need to do some research. First the Koran does teach that if you do not follow Mohammad then you are an infidel thus requiring death. just because ALL Muslims are not radicals doesn't mean that they are not supporters of Islam. Ask any Muslim about Israel and they all come up with the same answer which has little to do with tolerance. Also if you did know anything about Christianity then you would know that Easter is the most important celebrated Christian event. Christmas was never created by Christians. Christmas had pagan roots that basically come from the Emperor Constantine. Jesus wasn't born in December. However most Christians celebrate Christmas as a holiday rather then the true birth of Christ. I know of no horrible persecution done in the name of the Lord in the last 100 or so years. However  Muslim generated atrocities are being done as we speak in Africa, the Philippines and the middle east. There is a huge difference in doctrine between the two religions.

And if you're going to make speculations regarding my post's intentions, you should at least read it twice...

[Vudak]

I take it you have been selectively reading the bible..Because in it you will find the warrant for rape,murder,genocide,incest,masacism,genital mutilation,ritual sacrifice & slavery among other things.

If I didn't read the Bible selectively, how could I keep from laughing?

I'm personally one of those guys who will burn in hell for eternal damnation for believing in things like evolution and dinosaurs going extinct long before man walked the earth, so trust me, I'm not someone who'd say the Bible's perfect.  You're quite right there are horrible things in there.

I'm just saying that in my opinion, there is a gigantic difference between the way Jesus Christ lived his life, and the way Muhammad did.  I consider Christ to have been a fairly decent human being...  I can't say the same about Muhammad.

[BigPlay]

And if you're going to make speculations regarding my post's intentions, you should at least read it twice...

Your correct I should have read it twice. There are a few things that I do not agree with but nothing big. There are many who want to comment on their limited knowledge of both religions before understanding any. I apologize for my statement.

[Vudak]

Your correct I should have read it twice. There are a few things that I do not agree with but nothing big. There are many who want to comment on their limited knowledge of both religions before understanding any. I apologize for my statement.

No worries at all, sir.

[CptTrips]

AKWabbit, sorry for taking this semi-personal now...

I'm sorry too.  You have forced me to issue a Fatwa against you. 

Wab

[SirLoin]

I would like to thank Skuzzy for leaving this thread open for debate.

<S>

[Pei]

First the Koran does teach that if you do not follow Mohammad then you are an infidel thus requiring death.

No it does not. Have you bothered to read it? I have.