P-51 Rockets

[Stoney]

Just so everyone knows, the P-51D pilots training manual is posted on its AHWiki page.  A number of other manuals are also posted on AHWiki plane pages for US and UK aircraft...more as I get to them.

Thanks for taking the effort to get those posted, as they are excellent resources.

[Murdr]

Thanks for taking the effort to get those posted, as they are excellent resources.

Thanks to HTC for the space to host part of the collection, and to Ron Handgraaf who's collection we're referring to for documents we don't have on hand.

[Ack-Ack]

It may make them think twice before diving in.

The reason I don't think it will is that the majority that use 'suicide jabo' tactics do so out of 1) carelessness (they let themselves get too fast in a dive and auger in after pickling) and 2) lack of skill (not knowing how to dive bomb).  For those that don't know how to dive bomb, it's very easy just to ride the plane in to make sure your bombs hit.  These kind of players will keep doing this regardless if some of the larger ordnance packages were perked.

By this perked ord, this means you take up the 1K's and when they are dropped, perks are subtracted? Or when you die, they are?

From what I gather (and information has been very scarce other than the brief mention from Pyro) but it would seem the perks would be subtracted in the hanger when you select a perked ordnance package.


ack-ack

[AWwrgwy]

The reason I don't think it will is that the majority that use 'suicide jabo' tactics do so out of 1) carelessness (they let themselves get too fast in a dive and auger in after pickling) and 2) lack of skill (not knowing how to dive bomb).  For those that don't know how to dive bomb, it's very easy just to ride the plane in to make sure your bombs hit.  These kind of players will keep doing this regardless if some of the larger ordnance packages were perked.

From what I gather (and information has been very scarce other than the brief mention from Pyro) but it would seem the perks would be subtracted in the hanger when you select a perked ordnance package.


ack-ack

I'm a #1, especially if I zoom in during the dive.




wrongway

[Karnak]

Perking ordnance won't get rid of the suicide jabos or cut down on the tactic. 


ack-ack

My thoughts have nothing to do with suicide jabos.  I want to see attack aircraft such as the TBM and Ju87 have a definitive role.  I would honestly rather see the 1000lbers removed from fighters rather than perked.

[Guppy35]

While not used in every ground attack mission, P-38s did carry 1000lbers in level flight bombing runs.  They'd be led by a P-38 Droop Snoop pathfinder equipped with a Norden bombsight and would all drop when the pathfinder released its eggs.  How many missions were run like this?  Probably hundreds, if not more.


ack-ack

I went through the 428t FS, 474th history just to check as they flew 38s in the ETO until the end.  The flew ground attack and consistantly carried 2 x 1000 pounders for dive bombing or general ground attack from November 44 on.  It was 2 500 pounders prior to this time, so they were lugging 1000 pounders almost daily from November 44 to May 45.  They also carred 2 x 2000 pounders on a few occasions, again in ground attack.  They didn't do much droop snoot stuff. 

Quoting an e-mail from a 474th pilot who I correspond with now and then.

"We even carried two 2000 lb bombs a few times.  Had to use wooden sway bars that banged up the bird on bomb release
so we didn't do it often and 1k bombs were probably just as effective.  Both 2k bombs had to be dropped together-on pull out,
the bomb shackle would come off from g force."

As for the Mustangs.  Even in Korea where they were closer to the front lines and didn't lug DTs, they carried a mix ord load of Rockets and bombs or napalm.  It makes sense to have that kind of load out I think.  There is a great book on the Mustang in the Korean war with all kinds of photos and there isn't a single photo of a 10 rocket load out, but all kinds of photos of 51s with 6 rockets and bombs or 6 rockets and napalm tanks.

[Stoney]

As for the Mustangs.  Even in Korea where they were closer to the front lines and didn't lug DTs, they carried a mix ord load of Rockets and bombs or napalm.  It makes sense to have that kind of load out I think.  There is a great book on the Mustang in the Korean war with all kinds of photos and there isn't a single photo of a 10 rocket load out, but all kinds of photos of 51s with 6 rockets and bombs or 6 rockets and napalm tanks.

You know, they may have never carried them in combat, but the aircraft was capable--that's all.  From a tactical standpoint, I can't think of a scenario that would have made a 10 rocket load better than a rocket/bomb mix, other than perhaps FAC(A), but they weren't doing that kind of stuff yet in the 50's, and I don't know if they even had Willie-Pete 5" HVAR--probably not.  In game, on the other hand, I can certainly see a use for a 10 rocket only load--de-acking fields.  But, I prefer Jugs for that mission anyway.   

[TheZohan]

[Ack-Ack]

My thoughts have nothing to do with suicide jabos.  I want to see attack aircraft such as the TBM and Ju87 have a definitive role.  I would honestly rather see the 1000lbers removed from fighters rather than perked.

But certain fighters did lug around 1000lbers on certain missions when called for.  Or are you trying to say that it never happened?


ack-ack

[Karnak]

But certain fighters did lug around 1000lbers on certain missions when called for.  Or are you trying to say that it never happened?


ack-ack

Not at all.  Simply talking about game balance.  Now, I do think the P-38 and Bf110 should have their 1000lbers and 500kg bombs.  Just tempting to say otherwise.

I don't think the P-51 should have them for free.  Not sure about the F4U, F6F, P-47 or Typhoon.

[Plazus]

On second thought, couldnt the P51D carry an additional drop tank or bomb underneath the fuselage? Ive seen a few pictures of them.

[Guppy35]

On second thought, couldnt the P51D carry an additional drop tank or bomb underneath the fuselage? Ive seen a few pictures of them.

You've seen a photo of a 51 with a fuselage DT or bomb?  I'm thinking you are mistaken as the radiator 'doghouse' is under the fuselage and wouldn't be a place to hang a bomb as it's too low to the ground under the intake, and in front of the intake would not allow the airflow to the radiator.

[AWwrgwy]

You've seen a photo of a 51 with a fuselage DT or bomb?  I'm thinking you are mistaken as the radiator 'doghouse' is under the fuselage and wouldn't be a place to hang a bomb as it's too low to the ground under the intake, and in front of the intake would not allow the airflow to the radiator.

And, the inner gear doors are right there on the center line.  No where to hang a bomb there on a P-51.


wongway

[Plazus]

Oh okay... forgive my ignorance...