Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?

[Shuffler]

Neither successfully HO'd, only because one tried to avoid the HO and succeeded. The other tried to HO and failed to close the deal. Look at the thread title - "ho attempt".

Your rape analogy fails because it confuses potential with attempt. It is not a crime to possess the potential to rape, but decide not to do so. It is a crime to make an active attempt to rape even if your intended victim manages to thwart you.

Not to mention that comparing a HO to a felony is pretty silly.

What I'm puzzled about is why Anodizer bailed out.

So you turn if you "think" the other guy might ho or might come in line to try ho, interesting. When you have a lane take it unless the other guy tries to ho you..... but do not turn into his lane. No confusion except on your part.

[SkyRock]

Continue that scenario--Player B rolls out, as Player A lands 1 lucky @#$#@#$ing hizooka, Player B complains of HO, film shows that at moment of impact,  it was a 'front quarter', thus player B is labeled a 'whiner'...that scenario more typical than not, IMO

yup, all these HO twits are worthless for quality gameplay.

[475FG Savlan]

Because the premise is broken, there's a grey area between HO and not HO.  The only way to draw a clear line would be on a case by case basis: knowing the two players' intent.

Well said.

There are many times in a fight you may encounter a head on just due to the evasives being done in a multi bandit environment.  Often not done with intent at all but just, as the bumper sticker says.."sh*t happens'.

Think of the movie cliche of a motorist swerving to avoid a baby carriage only to go head on into oncoming traffic.  He did everything deliberately, but did not intend to go head on with another car.

Intent is key. 

[SkyRock]

Most definitely a HO attempt.   Instead of lazily gong for HO shot, he could have created an angular merge where the fight would have ended right then and there.

[Yeager]

The neverending HO discussion...

Bottom line - until HT decides to write an "anti-HO shield" like we had in Air Warrior, it will be part of the game and you're going to have to deal with it.  

the day HT adds a "anti-HO shield" disgrace of a joke into AH like they had in AW is the day I hang my AH hat up for good.  To kill an obviously realistic capability like that for the sake of "gameplay" completely ruins the entire gaming experience.

[Crash Orange]

So you turn if you "think" the other guy might ho or might come in line to try ho, interesting. When you have a lane take it unless the other guy tries to ho you..... but do not turn into his lane. No confusion except on your part.

I'm trying to translate this into comprehensible English without success. Anyway, it doesn't matter what I ""think."" It matters what the pilot in question "does." When you point your nose at someone else who's headed toward you from 3k out, keep your nose pointed at him throughout the merge, and fire as soon as he's in range, what you have done is to attempt a HO, regardless of what the outcome is. If you miss because the other pilot managed to evade your fire, that doesn't make it not a HO attempt, it makes it an incompetent HO attempt. What the other pilot ""thinks"" doesn't change that either way.

As for "lanes," I've never seen any white or yellow lines painted on the sky in AH2, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

No "confusion" at all, except on your part, since you seem unable to grasp the concept of "attempt." 

[humble]

And speaking for someone I fly with, Ano isn't out looking to HO, just fight and get better.  That's all his intentions are.  If not, he wouldn't be one of my 80th guys.

I think that if we can leave the drama aside we have a film (initial few seconds) that can provide an excellent vehicle to discuss certain realities of ACM.

1st, this simply wasn't a HO. Further it wasn't actually a merge either...at least by my definition. What we have in reality is nothing other then a gun pass caught on film. We have a high speed (430mph+) pass on a slower (260 MPH) bogey. Thats it, nothing more nothing less. Now viewed in the context of a B&Z pass there is no such thing as a "HO". Your decision to continue in if the bogey squares up is one of continuing your pass or denying the attempted HO from the target.

The simple reality is that if a faster plane is targeting you the options are simple. Avoid the pass or try and square up for the "50/50" shot. The simple truth is that a B&Z pass by definition is inferior to an E attack. The 38 had better options to create a sustainable advantage and higher % shot...

[Anodizer]

5 pages and Karaya hasnt even responded, <S>K.

Oh please....  Do you guys "cross streams" in the boys bathroom too?  Jeeze....  Talk about a man crush...
That only makes him a whiny b-i-t-c-h without the stones to come here and state his case without resorting to snide remarks and poke you in the eye type comments..
Apparently, a few of you have done that for him....  Be sure to get your compensation....
"<S>" my arse....

My definition of HO is exactly that...  A HEAD-ON SHOT were both guys go in nose to nose with guns blazing.... 
That's not what this is..  Regardless of what you guys think I wanted to do or what I was going do to, I had
no intention of doing a head-on shot(but from now on, I'll be sure to take the shot )  I missed a FRONT QUARTER shot(my aim sucks, forgive me)...  It's simply a front quarter shot because
if ANY of you guys saying it's ho would've done the exact shot on me, it would've been a FRONT QUARTER SHOT....
So, that's what it will be....  Anyone has a problem with that, I have some fresh cat-crap you can feast on with your dogs....Dogs love cat crap..

This "discussion" wasn't meant to be about whether or not I had missed or whether or not I had performed the wrong maneuver or
didn't continue the fight like it should've been done..  Many of you have taken it to that level probably to inflate your own already grossly inflated egos....
For those of you "concerned" with my bailing: I bailed and logged so I could watch the film..  I apologize for not giving you more ammunition with which to
continue your ego self inflation..

[Cajunn]

You know, the whole topic of being ho'ed is going to be  one of then things that's never going to be settled,
right or wrong, who knows.............
Is it a Ho or not, there are no judges.............
Is it ever going to stop, No...........

And as for as I'm concerned if your in a fight to your virtual death, it's just like a street fight, anything goes! I just wish that people would stop with the complaining and name calling, because I know that there or more then a few players out there use the ho as an excuse for being shot down. I had a squad mate A couple of years ago and every time he was shot down, you could wait for the " the @*&@#%* ho'ed me" and I seen him more then one time get shot from the back or I even seen him Lawn Dart and he claimed he was ho'ed . So Anodizer don't sweat it man I get the "you ho tard" PM every now and then and I think yap but your the one walking home!   

[The Fugitive]

Oh please....  Do you guys "cross streams" in the boys bathroom too?  Jeeze....  Talk about a man crush...
That only makes him a whiny b-i-t-c-h without the stones to come here and state his case without resorting to snide remarks and poke you in the eye type comments..
Apparently, a few of you have done that for him....  Be sure to get your compensation....
"<S>" my arse....

My definition of HO is exactly that...  A HEAD-ON SHOT were both guys go in nose to nose with guns blazing.... 
That's not what this is..  Regardless of what you guys think I wanted to do or what I was going do to, I had
no intention of doing a head-on shot(but from now on, I'll be sure to take the shot )  I missed a FRONT QUARTER shot(my aim sucks, forgive me)...  It's simply a front quarter shot because
if ANY of you guys saying it's ho would've done the exact shot on me, it would've been a FRONT QUARTER SHOT....
So, that's what it will be....  Anyone has a problem with that, I have some fresh cat-crap you can feast on with your dogs....Dogs love cat crap..

This "discussion" wasn't meant to be about whether or not I had missed or whether or not I had performed the wrong maneuver or
didn't continue the fight like it should've been done..  Many of you have taken it to that level probably to inflate your own already grossly inflated egos....
For those of you "concerned" with my bailing: I bailed and logged so I could watch the film..  I apologize for not giving you more ammunition with which to
continue your ego self inflation..

Well you can learn a couple of things here.

1. Think twice about posting this kind of film. Rarely will you get the response you are looking for.

2. You need to admit to yourself that you made a mistake in your flying. You had every intention to HO in that first shot. Had you not you would have maneuvered to saddle up on the spit instead of wasting energy and position going for the shot you took. One example would have been to break high left to gain separation, roll inverted to keep an eye on the spit, and then pull into him to saddle up for a much better shot opportunity

You have to admit to yourself that pointing your nose at him the whole time is NOT the best way to go about it. Learn from your mistake, and move on.

[SlapShot]

This post/film is a prime example of the "sensitivity" that runs amok within the LW arenas.

It was a 5 second encounter in 1 sortie on 1 night ... Karaya call it a HO and because of that, you were upset enough to post this drivel to see if we agree with him or you ... Who gives a flyin rats arse whether it was a HO and not a HO and why would you care if Karaya called it an HO ? ... what earth shaking event will take place or not take place due to the overall consensus of whether this is a HO or not a HO.

IMHO ... Karaya never should have said anything ... had he just accepted the situation for what it was and then continued on with his sortie ... this BS BBS whine would have been avoided and 200 would have had 1 less childish rant in the text buffer.

Yeagar already pointed this out but it seemed to get glossed over ... the most interesting and most telling thing in that film was the conversations that were taking place on 200 ... it is a prime example of what the LW MA arenas have devolved to.

[Rich46yo]

While an HO I wouldn't call that a bad HO. Ive had guys Ive been chasing, while in far slower airplanes, just turn around for no reason and fly right into my face. The ride they are in has every advantage in speed, turn, climb, and acceleration, and still they pull these suicidal stunts. Had a guy do it yesterday in a Spit-16 after I broke him off my squadie. This HO you can almost call a reflex HO and while still an HO I wouldn't get all upset over it. P-38s have it so bad with pilot wounding you have to be a little fast on the trigger.

As to "perch flying" thats just good tactics. Many times thats the only edge the P-38 has so why not use it? Nothing wrong with keeping the high ground and using the hybrid B & Z'ing of P-38s. This entire incident should have been a non-starter.

[ToeTag]

This is the single most ridiculous post. ACM includes having to take HO or rudder deflection shots on an opponent, especially when the planes are closely matched.  If I am 100 feet to either side of a plane @ co alt or on the ground in tight a turn, I will engage my rudder to get good guns on him. I have gotten many kills this way.  IMO a head on shot is when two guys are flying in a straight line at one another and either collide or blow the other guy outta the air.  I have also been brained (PW) trying to avoid these types of encounters.  Why because I got to close.  If you don't want to be caught up in these types of engagements then turn sooner, climb sooner, or dive sooner bout 1.5 k out and I will bet you all of your HO woes will disappear.  HO in the MA is like HO on the street nobody likes to get caught in one. 

[waystin2]

Hello Anodizer,

There are only few things that you have done incorrectly here:

1)Giving a care what anyone says on channel 200.  Just detune it, it is not worth effort of monitoring.

2)Posting it here and subjecting yourself to harsh review by the BBS crowd.

3)Arguing semantics on what is or is not a HO.  Probably the hottest issues there is on these boards, and not likely to be resolved any time soon.

Have a great day,

Way(the Diplomat)

[Bucky73]

The court rules in favor of the Defendant. Video evidence proves that this was not a HO. We also award the Defendant 250perkies to be taken from the plantiff and video game court cost's of $100 to be mailed to ME.

Next case please......