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Author Topic: E-retention  (Read 3966 times)

Offline Vermillion

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E-retention
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2000, 08:29:00 AM »
Wells, any way you could do this test for the -1C, seperate from the -1D ?

I keep seeing threads about how the -1C is so superior in E retention to other aircraft and the -1D, and I was wondering as to the accuracy of the statement.

Would appreciate it greatly!!

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Vermillion
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2000, 06:56:00 PM »
FIX THE CHOG!

ITS FRIGGIN REDICULOUS!!!!!!!

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Yeager
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"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Pyro

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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2000, 08:46:00 PM »
Fix it how?  



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
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Offline juzz

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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2000, 08:53:00 PM »
I think he means that it's supposed to have 8 rocket rails, not 4.
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2000, 09:56:00 PM »
Pyro,

I cant put a specific claim fourth using film or graphs or charts.  Its simply multiple observations on my part that the F4U1C is retaining unbelievable energy, especially in ultra tight combat speed reversals.

Just like the 190A5s were doing in 1.03 there seems to be no substantial loss of energy executing a 180 degree turn at well over 350 mph in under 1k and then gaining on a combat speed Mustang that has made no evasives prior or subsequent to the initial merge and in fact noses down to attempt separation to no avail.  I have been whacked a dozen times in this manner and I am puzzled to say the least.

Is it believable?  Thats my problem I guess.
Straighten me out!

Yeager

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 10-18-2000).]
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"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline By-Tor

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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2000, 12:04:00 AM »
 Man,this Wells guy continues to blow my not so impressive mind .The highest level of mathematics I've ever achieved (with a passing mark)was Mechanics 1. Ex.Figure the forces acting upon EACH member of said bridge structure.I was totally mentally exhausted at the end of each 45 min,1 question,3 pages of calculations test.Trig and wholy toejam algebra(miss 1 +\- sign and whole problem is out the door!).
 Forgot my point here but to be so impressed with you numbers type thinkers.
 I am an artist by trade and as such working off the wrong damn lobe
 However I do play a MEAN bass guitar!
 
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Offline gatt

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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2000, 01:36:00 AM »
Again another UFO-encounter yesterday that I forgot to film.
I was chasing an F4U at 1000yds+ with my C205. We were both in a shallow dive. The Hog pointed against some friendly dots. He turned slowly to the right, still in a shallow dive and lower than me (I guess at about 400mph+). So I decided to gave up the chase and gently zoomed at 400mph+, without *any* other manoeuver, pulling as low "g" as I could, gaining thousands of feet, in order to engage with an inbound 109 higher than me. The 109 turned into me from the left side. When I looked at my 6 I saw the 109 at 1,000yds (thats ok) .... and the same Hog at 400yds (sic), *quickly* gaining on me, shooting and .... well you know the end: BOOM. Stupid me I didnt film it. I'm not joking, this was the worst AH night in one year.
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

funked

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« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2000, 02:09:00 AM »
Is it possible he turned a smaller radius than you, taking a shorter path at a slower speed?

Or that he was going faster than you in the dive and had more speed after the pull out?  

High speed climbing ability usually goes with top speed - F4U is a faster plane than the 205 at all altitudes IIRC.  It seems possible that he might have been able to climb at a higher speed than you after the pull-out.

Just some non-UFO possibilities you might consider.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-18-2000).]
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Offline gatt

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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2000, 02:38:00 AM »
Well,
I didnt turn at all. I simply pulled up trying to save as much E as possible. And a 205 at 400mph+ has plenty of E. Before, he was slightly lower and ahead of me about 1,100yds, with his nose pointing down in a shallow dive to the right. However, he had enuff E to roll left, pull up and zoom into an higher and fast climbing 205. The guy flying the Hog was kind and explained me his whole manoeuver. I couldnt believe my eyes reading in the radio-buffer. I think thats simply enuff for me. After one whole year and hundreds of engagements I think I can judge pretty well what happens around me and in particular the E-state of a/c I'm engaged with. Anyway, thx Funked. I'm in a real low mentally E situation   Probably I'll take a leave from AH.

Disclaimer: this is only my humble, personal, biased, dweebish, partial opinion.

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GATT
4° Stormo Caccia - Knights
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

funked

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« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2000, 02:48:00 AM »
Turn = pulling gees.  When you pulled up your flight path had a radius of curvature.  If the Hog's path had a smaller radius he could travel a shorter distance and decrease his range on you.  I.e. he "pulled lead".

If he was only 1100 yds ahead of you in a shallow dive, his altitude was only slightly less than yours.  But because of his faster aircraft he may have been going much faster and had more energy.

I'm suprised that you are surprised by this.

Disclaimer:  I am not very humble but I am a dweeb.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-18-2000).]
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Offline gatt

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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2000, 02:56:00 AM »
We had about the same speed, I have been chasing him for about half a minute.

If I cant break from a fighter I'm chasing from 1,100yds and a slightly higher position, then it means I'm playing the wrong game. I mean wrong for me. I need something easier or different.

Disclaimer: I'm a dweeb without film camera so I dont know what I mean    


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-18-2000).]
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2000, 06:49:00 AM »
One thing we need to not forget is the old fashioned factor of netlag.

Nothing personal Gatt, but I have noticed repeatedly when flying in the Med SEA against some of your squadmates that the connects from Italy to the server can be quite variable. Sometimes they are very good, and others it looks like a romulan warp fest (Star Trek reference   ) and this can change back and forth, even within the same fight.

Unfortunately this can happen to any of us, its a factor of the internet.

All it takes to make something "strange" is a single long delay at the time a plane begins its manuever.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Offline Lephturn

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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2000, 06:59:00 AM »
I think Gatt is also confusing climb with zoom.  While the Hog doesn't climb very well, it zooms very well from high speed.

I'm not surprised by this at all.  In fact, if you tried this behind my Jug I'm certain I could have done the same thing with a light fuel load.

BTW, 180 degrees of turn is not much really.  The Hog has a great initial turn at high speed, and hence they can do the 180 reversal pretty damn fast.  The Hog also is renowned for being a pure E fighter, and retaining E well especially at high speed.  If any plane is going to nail you in the situation you described it would be a Hog.

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Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
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Offline gatt

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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2000, 07:40:00 AM »
Thx Verm and Lepht,
AFAIK the connx was very good and yes, I meant zoom and not sustained climb. Anyway, I've been playing from the first beta and now 1.04 is ruining my enjoiment. Just my personal opinion, not a flame war at all.
Good hunting,

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GATT
4° Stormo Caccia - Knights
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Minotaur

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« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »
Gatt;

I would say forget trying to get anything across here.  Almost before the ink dries players will be out to prove what you have written to be wrong.  Almost no one reads and tries to understand what you have said.

LOL  

It really is pointless...

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Humble
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