Home network question

[Krusty]

I have a home network going here. Cable modem in basement with a 4-port hub there, wire running up 2 floors to 2nd floor with 8-port switch there. The 4-port hub feeds downstairs and first floor and the switch feeds all the bedrooms upstairs.

The switch is failing, after several years. Only 4 of the 8 ports work, so we replaced it. 3 rooms have laptops with built-in wireless cards, and we have a spare that also uses wireless. We had a 50' cable in the living room in case laptop users wanted to wander.

So, in replacing the burnt out switch, got a wireless hub. This reduces the overall number of cables we have snaking around by at least half. Works great, and yes I've got it set up with a security key!

However, slight issue. The wireless hub is its own hub. It is somehow preventing computers using IT from seeing computers using the wired 4-port hub in the basement. Even on the same workgroup.

So it's probably the protocols and features on the wireless hub that are doing it.

I want to be sure if I disable anything that I'm not leaving my network open to intrusion. We have the firewall on the wired hub that's hooked into the modem, but I don't know if the stuff on the wireless hub is protecting us from folks trying to connect in our neighborhood (showing about half a dozen other wireless networks around us).

So what do I need to do/setup on the wireless to 1) allow file sharing across the network, 2) keep me protected wireless and wired, and 3) (I assume) disables whatever on the wireless hub is already being handled by the wired hub (reduce redundancy).

The switch was just bare bones, limited protocols, etc, so it never had issues. The hubs are both trying to do their own thing. So, what do I do to solve this problem?

[BaldEagl]

Not sure how to get the two hubs synced but as far as security goes as long as you are using an encryption key to access the wireless hub it's highly doubtful someone could figure out what it is unless you're using something silly like linksys or admin or something.  Even if someone DID accidently stumble upon your key then they'd have to know your workgroup name to access any of the computers.

Did you set up both routers with the same SSID?  Did you leave broadcast SSID turned on on the wireless router?  Are all the computers part of the same workgroup?  You might try using IP addresses rather than computer names to try to connect.

[Krusty]

broadcast SSID is on for simplicity's sake, but the key is alphanumeric and that'll keep outsiders in the neighborhood from logging onto it.

The wired router doesn't have any wireless components. It's an old-fashioned hub. It's our connection sharing device and firewall (first thing plugged into the modem). I want this one to handle all the IP assignments and networking, if possible. It has DHCP and a number of other acronyms running but I've forgotten which ones at the moment.

I connect the wireless' uplink with a cable coming from one of the wired ports.

I tried disbaling DHCP or something on the wireless that handles IPs, but after that it wouldn't function properly and I could not even get back into the router controls to change it back. Had to factory reset it and start over again.

EDIT: I can get around on wired networks okay, but this is my first foray into wireless. Up until now we've mostly had desktops/towers, now we have enough laptops to make it useful.

[OOZ662]

Terms are being used willy-nilly here, so I'm not too sure of your topology. I'm assuming you have a wireless ROUTER in line to a wired HUB or SWITCH.

The ROUTER at the highest tier (closest to the internet source) should be set to handle DHCP. The router will inherit the IP address that your ISP gives you and assign local IPs to all of the systems in the house in this case. All of the other devices should have DHCP turned off if available.
Now, assuming the old box ISN'T a router, make sure the cable connecting it to the router goes from one of the router's numbered ports (ie not Internet) to the hub's UPLINK port. You might need to look up in a manual what it is. Usually it's labeled "uplink," but I've seen some that use Port 1.

Once all of the computers can access the internet from each location, then it's time to start testing if the local network communications work. They should, but electronics can be fun.

EDIT: Ignore the fact that you have wireless, then. Turn it off and get all your land machines working. At that point turn on the wireless part of the router. Set up the security key. Hook the laptop to the wireless signal. At that point, it will act exactly the same way as if it were wired.

EDIT2: I know it sounds stupid, but describing network topology is pretty hard to do through text. Making a dumpy little MS-Paint drawing of your setup could literally save hours of confusion on our end.

[Krusty]

The first tier is my wired router

Second tier is the wireless/wired (combo) router

Internet works fine at all levels right now. It's the workgroup sharing that's messed up.

I disabled DHCP on the wireless but it stopped functioning properly. I had to start over after resetting the unit, as mentioned.

[OOZ662]

I believe that's because the wireless router is trying to usurp control over the network, as in 90% of cases people put the combo router at the source of the internet. The only way I know to get it working would be to either put the combo router in the wired's place or get rid of the wired one all together. Sorry. Maybe Skuzzy'll bow in.

[Fulmar]

Do you have it that your wireless hub is assigned an IP?  Because it may not be requesting an IP from your DHCP assigning wired router.  For your size of a network, you'll only need one device assigning IPs (DHCP).

IIRC, (it's been a couple years), when I set up my IPCop firewall box, I turned DHCP off my wireless router, but I had to assign it a manual IP address (in its setup) for it to function properly as a switch/wireless access point.

My network goes like this:  Modem -> PC (Athlon 2000+, running ClarkConnect, DHCP, FTP, file server, firewall) -> D-Link DI-524 Wireless router -> PC's/printers on my network.

I take it yours is like this?: 
Modem
->
Wired Router (DHCP on)
->
PC's on Network  |||| Wireless Hub
                                    ->
                               PC's on network

[Krusty]

correct

So I go into the wired router, see what the IP is for that device, then go into the wireless hub and set the IP to whatever the first one already has it set?

I think I recall seeing an IP page in the wireless setup pages but didn't mess with it much.

[BaldEagl]

Fulmar is correct.  You need to determine what IP the wired router has assigned to the wireless router then turn off DHCP on the wireless router and assign it a permanent IP (the one that the wired router has already assigned).  You may also have to assign a gateway but I'm not 100% sure on that so try this step first.

[Krusty]

Thanks. I'll try it tomorrow morning. Can't disrupt evening traffic while I figure it out

[Krusty]

I couldn't get it working like I wanted. I wanted to disable whatever was interfering with the wired gateway, but nothing I did would get it working. I played around on both the routers and even assigned an IP for the wireless on the wired gateway, and set the same IP on the wireless' setup screens.

In the end the ONLY thing that worked was to yank the cord out of the "internet" (aka uplink) plug and stick it into the 4th jack (thus using up my last port, anything else will have to be wireless or set up downstairs).

The interface for the wireless wasn't the best, but was decent. It had a drop box that supposedly would let you choose "gateway" or "router" -- router being described as one on a larger network, not the source of the Internet connection. This unfortunately didn't work as advertised.

Oh well, using my last port got it to share internet AND workgroups. Guess that's a minor win in my book!

[Fulmar]

Wait, I'm confused.  Were you plugging an ethernet cable in your 'internet jack' on the Wireless router (aka tier 2 of your network)?  i.e. a cable from say port 4 on the wired router was plugged into the internet jack on the wireless router.

[ImADot]

Might be a lot of reading, but will help lots with making sense out of home networking with routers, switches, hubs, etc.  Has good diagrams and everything.

http://www.grc.com/nat/nat.htm

[llama]

Wireless routers are normally firewalls too. They block traffic downstream of the router to getting to computers that are connected to it.

This is what keeps computers connected to it safe from The Internet and all the packet-sniffing that's going on there.

In this case, the router on the second floor is "protecting" all your second-floor computers from the "dangers" of the first floor and the Internet, such as home networking. That's it's job.

In other words, you have basically created two separate networks, and device-sharing traffic isn't supposed to travel between the two, and it isn't.

What you really need on the second floor is a "wireless access point." This is basically a wireless router without the firewall part. Better wireless routers will let you configure then as WAPs, but cheap ones won't. If the wireless signal is strong enough, then it can be on the first floor. You really should still have a switch/hub on the second floor as before if you want a single household LAN.

-Llama

[Fulmar]

What you really need on the second floor is a "wireless access point." This is basically a wireless router without the firewall part. Better wireless routers will let you configure then as WAPs, but cheap ones won't. If the wireless signal is strong enough, then it can be on the first floor. You really should still have a switch/hub on the second floor as before if you want a single household LAN.

-Llama

Unless the software on the Wireless router he is using is complete garbage, he just needs to edit some settings.  In my network setup.  My ClarkConnect PC box does all the DHCP and Firewalling.  Since my wife has a laptop and Access points were more than what I paid for my D-Link DI-524, I just logged into it, turned off the DHCP and firewall stuff and voila.  It functions as a switch/wireless access point perfectly.