Sonderkommando "ELBE" Bf 109 skin

[Larry]

I've never seen this suggested before... I do it, unintentionally however. But I do find that if I drag out the process I sometimes look at things differently and see things that I didn't see before.

Procrastination makes perfect, as is in my sig

Iv always done since I rushed things and forgot a huge part on one of my 190D skins. I knew the deadline was coming up and sent it in to early then the day it came out I noticed that I was missing a "walk here" outline. That's why now I work on multiple skins at the same time. I work on one for a week then switch to the next one and work on it for a week and so on. That way each time I start working on it my eyes are fresh and I spot the little things right away.

[Xasthur]

No point, these aircraft were unarmed and thus will not be accepted.

Some retained a single cowl MG, but that's it.

[Xasthur]

Sonderkommando Elbe WAS the German Kamikaze operation

No, it wasn't.

They just used the aircraft as their weapon, instead of the guns.

Germany did not have an equivalent of the Kamikaze operation.

They operated under the belief that they had a small chance of survival.

[Klauss]

krusty, how am i wasting your time? If you consider that posting here is a waste of time, don't post in the first place. I am not ashamed with the skin. I won't post screenshots just for the hell of it, done that.

[Bosco123]

Don't be so stuck up, most of these people here are string to help you, not blatently tring to pick on you.

We need a picture of that skin you are giving us, even I know that that is inaccurate, that's why I usually don't watch Dogfights for the planes, more the stories. If you can find an actual picture that particular plane, then by all rights skin it, it will be accepted.
It will never be accepted without the proof. That's what they are tring to tell you.

[B4Buster]

Here's my .2

Sonderkommando was NOT a kamikaze unit. They rammed the bombers with the intent to bail out, not kill themselfs.

As far as what plane it was,my guess would be a G6 as they produced more of those than any other variant, and I don't see them using a newer variant on ramming bombers.

I don't think the skin should be added. They saw action, but I wouldn't consider it "combat" They came in higher, rammed the bomber, and bailed out if they were lucky.

I tried finding more pictures but couldn't for some reason...not alot ot there. I think it was a good thought Klauss, but sources seem to be hard to come by on this unit.

 

[Guppy35]

krusty, how am i wasting your time? If you consider that posting here is a waste of time, don't post in the first place. I am not ashamed with the skin. I won't post screenshots just for the hell of it, done that.

His point is we want to help, but you aren't giving us much to go on.  With what we've seen now, it wouldn't be accepted as there is no historical photos of the aircraft.  You aren't clear what type 109 it is, and we haven't seen a preview of the actual skin so we could possibly find photo references for you to back it up.

That's why I visit this forum as I like to be able to help since I have built up a large library of my own resources.  I'll help you if I can but you need to meet us halfway here

[macleod01]

Then when you're TOTALLY DONE, step away from it for a full week. Not 3 days. Not 5 days. A week. Don't even look at it. Come back and start over. Look at your detail layers, your weathering, the final in-game product, and make some changes. Then step away from it for ANOTHER week. When you no longer see any changes you want to make with your "fresh eyes" ask the community. Some suggestions are subjective, but some are quite eye-opening, and you realize you've missed something important.

You know, when I did my first skin, the 109E4, I wish someone had mentioned that to me. I spent a long time on it, but it was constant work, with no breaks. When It finally got accepted, I flew it in game, and my first thought was 'My god, those cordite marks look naff!'

Had I stepped away, Im sure I would have corrected them

[Xasthur]

From 'Luftwaffe Sturmgruppen' by John Weal:

"The mission was to be flown at very high altitude. In order to save weight, most of the Messerchmitts had their heavy engine-mounted cannon removed. Many had at least one of their fuselage machine gunstaken out as well, leaving just a single weapon and 60 rounds in the magazine..." "...Some reports suggest that the Prague units flew aircrafft that were completely unarmed"

This information would suggest that the Kommando Elbe aircraft are not really suitable for addition to the game.

It would be nice to honour the efforts of these desperate young Germans by doing a skin but I don't think that slapping a skin on a G-14 or K4 is necessarily the best way to do that.

Given that most Elbe 109s had 2/3s of their armament removed (in particular, the main weapon) I don't think that a Kommando Elbe skin should be accepted. Certainly not without rock solid evidence and photos, at least.

Klauss, doing skins is nice but as a few people have already mentioned, skins that are done without solid evidence are a waste of slots.

There are only 15 slots per aircraft. There are photos, WrkNmr details and all sorts of other information readily available on heaps of aircraft. There tonnes of photos and accompanying profiles in books that are quite cheap through Amazon, for example.

Forgive me if I sound blunt or harsh, it is not my intention to do so, it's just that the information for these aircraft is out there and there isn't really any excuse for sloppiness in this area.

That's why people seem to getting a bit pissy with you. People spend hours and plenty of dollars buying and pouring through books to find the correct rivet and panel line details for their skins... then they do the same thing all over again whilst finding photos of their subject aircraft.... finding out its history and any distinctive markings it may have had.

Skins may just be a bunch of pixels but they shouldn't just be treated as 'some cool paint job' for us to muck around with in a computer game... The skins are an opportunity for some of us to pay tribute to the men who flew and sometimes died in these aircraft. I know that's how I treat it. It's symbol of respect.

That does sound harsh, sorry. It's not meant to be.

If you understand that, you'll be on the same page as most of the guys here and you will get nothing but helpful comments from them. 

[VonMessa]

Sad, really.

I thought there would be hope.

[Klauss]

really sad...

[Plazus]

Klauss,

I found some links for you to look at. They are not legitimate sources, but maybe they will help you expand your research on this squad unit. Some of these websites have lists of books, and perhaps you will be able to back up your skin to the HTC staff. Not sure if itll do justice, but just trying to help out! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_Elbe
http://imansolas.freeservers.com/Angelos/Elbe_english.html
http://aircraft.wikia.com/wiki/Sonderkommando_Elbe

Please note also that this unit flew only one mission. About 8 bombers were destroyed and the mission was very unsuccessful.

[Hazzer]

 Here are two interviews with Ramjager pilots,they may be of some use,and they are certainly interesting.





Sorry about the image quality.