Defining bad game-play

[Dadsguns]

Not quibbling with you one bit on this one Suns, I agree about the mindset thing.  My thought is that if HTC does not make these limits then they tacitly approve of said super horde missions.

It is within the parameters of the game, you could have 100 in a mission if you wanted.  
Even if you limited it to 10 in a mission, you would still be able to coordinate 10 more on another.  It appears to be more along the lines of responsible and reasonable mission planning, but that is the human factor, how would you control that?

[DCCBOSS]

No there is no way of knowing "how many", but thats suppose to be part of the fun. There is also common sense which a lot of these people show very little of.  20 guys for most bases, I'd take 25 for a large base. That is the max, bringing 50, AND hiding them in the trees the whole way is over kill, and lame.

20 guys means you have to co-ordinate, plan out the attack, and use some skill to take out what your assigned to take out, This make people more responsible... because the rest of the team is counting on them... so they strive to get better. Also there is no guaranty that your team will win, which adds excitement to the mission. You get a small touch of being in the war, the bit of the sweaty palm syndrome, your heart beats a bit faster the closer you get to battle. As corky jr says "...for just a couple minutes you loose your self in the game".

Of course many of you have no idea what I'm talking about, or think you do, but never have experienced it so your version is a pale substitute. As long as you hide in the horde you'll never know this type of fun because as a horde you really can't loose. Sure a bunch of you get sent to the tower, but "you did capture another base", good for you. If you stay in the horde, you'll never become anything more than mediocre at anything in the game. For those few of you that might read these "debates" and start thinking "I'll prove them wrong" and start learning more, practicing at things to get better, you'll find yourself getting to the "battle" and find you can't use those skills you worked so hard to build because the other 30+ guys in the mission flatten everything....again.

Thats when you'll finally step out of the horde. You'll know there is more that you can do in this game and you'll want to do it. The rest of us who have already done so await your revelation, for some of you there IS hope.

Well I understand your assumption that when we ( RT ) up a mission it is always in large numbers, this is not true, although on occasion we do have large missions we do normally operate somewhat along the lines of what you are saying on a smaller scale mainly using squadmates and not all who are on line at that time are in the mission, like you said they may be running proactive / supporting sorties all part of our planning process to other bases, so when you really get down to it we are not that far off of what you may consider good game play. Now as far as fur balls I can attest to the fact we do get into and will stay engaged in a fur ball and you have shot me down a few times, I can speak for 99% of our squad will not run from a fight we will however extend to gain altitude to deal with the astronauts, I also have to say that most of our long term members have been getting better at ACM tactics, we train every Tuesday in the TA just for that purpose, this also would follow along with what you saying if we are training in ACM tactics surely that would not be for running horde missions would it.

That all being said you longer term members to AH have become very good at ACM tactics so your opponents seem more and more to be lacking the right skills to satisfy your needs of what you want to see from them but everbody advances on different curves some are slower than others, now I can only speak for myself, my skills are getting better but not as good as some of the uber sticks yet, I will get there but in the meantime I will not run from a fight and that I can say about anyone of my squadmates and I will fight till I die or you do, we are not score mongers so for the most part we don't care if we get killed of course we prefer not to die but it all part of the deal, you can't make a omelet without breaking some eggs.  

[bmwgs]

Not in this case.   This thread is still continuing via the same stupidity and ignorance on Page 2.   The same three squad members haven't begun to decipher fact from their own "fantasy".   

But, please continue. 

You consider this the real world?

Fred

[moot]

It's not a gameplay problem, it's a mind set. you can't change natural human behavior no matter how hard u try.

The dweeb is strong with this one!  Sunsfan - open your mind to the immense potential of acmlessness and absolutely indiscriminate field porking and steamrolling dorkness, to the ways of the horde! Now!!  Repent your ways as an elitist bent on perfidious evangelism for so-called "balanced" and "quality" dogfights, and JOIN the might of our awesome amoebic land grabbing powers!!  Renounce their subversive "fighting" agenda!  Be ONE with the lemming hive mind, let it guide your joystick not with pretentious tacticism but with inspired stick stirs and negative G, spray and pray, and HO-rams for the gregarious good of your amoebic brethren!  Do not burden yourself with SA but glide on blissfully uninterrupted parabolic trajectories from CV to field and deliver the horde's package to those damned Fighter Hangars!! 

[Dadsguns]

The dweeb is strong with this one!  Sunsfan - open your mind to the immense potential of acmlessness and absolutely indiscriminate field porking and steamrolling dorkness, to the ways of the horde! Now!!  Repent your ways as an elitist bent on perfidious evangelism for so-called "balanced" and "quality" dogfights, and JOIN the might of our amoebic and awesome land grabbing powers!!  Renounce their subversive "fighting" agenda!  Be ONE with the lemming hive mind, let them guide your joystick not with pretentious tacticism but with inspired stick stirs and negative G, spray and pray, and HO-rams for the gregarious good of your amoebic brethren!   

Our Messiah has come........   

[moot]

Down with dogfighting!  Down with air combat!

[moot]

Down with the HTC collision model conspiracy!!

[DCCBOSS]

The dweeb is strong with this one!  Sunsfan - open your mind to the immense potential of acmlessness and absolutely indiscriminate field porking and steamrolling dorkness, to the ways of the horde! Now!!  Repent your ways as an elitist bent on perfidious evangelism for so-called "balanced" and "quality" dogfights, and JOIN the might of our awesome amoebic land grabbing powers!!  Renounce their subversive "fighting" agenda!  Be ONE with the lemming hive mind, let it guide your joystick not with pretentious tacticism but with inspired stick stirs and negative G, spray and pray, and HO-rams for the gregarious good of your amoebic brethren!  Do not burden yourself with SA but glide on blissfully uninterrupted parabolic trajectories from CV to field and deliver the horde's package to those damned Fighter Hangars!! 

I hate to say don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, sir I have been subjected too and witnessed too you zooming and picking off people when they clearly engaged on a 1v1 acm fight so don't sit there on a pedestal claiming your profound wisdom when it comes to this subject.

[moot]

I admit I was possessed by the evil spirit of unrepentant pwn, and by the grace of your shining example of tactical, strategic, and technical savvy, I now see the light!  I will henceforth adress people whom I wish to Befriend and Sooth, or BS, by the title of Sir, because that changes everything.

[eddiek]

Wow, this has turned into a long thread.  Here's my thoughts:
NOE missions can be fun for both attackers and defenders alike, IF there are similiar #'s on both sides.  I've had my share of fun trying to up in time to thwart such an attack several times.  Unless I'm in the tower when (or IF) the call comes that an NOE raid has been detected, I have a reasonably good chance of getting airborne.  90% of the time, I am already fighting elsewhere, and when or if I die, it's too late to help at the base being attacked.  You have limited choices in that situation, usually:  a)sit in the tower and laugh at the 20 or more planes swarming the base to make sure NO defense gets up, or; b) spawn a plane or GV and get vulched("whatever it takes, at all costs") so you can't defend.
What I don't understand, is why go attack a base that has NO activity there?  Sure, it makes great tactical sense, IF YOU WANT TO AVOID COMBAT AND RISK.  
Face it, the hordes typically attack an undefended base or port in large numbers because they: 1)don't want to have to fight, and 2) if they do have to fight, they know they better have overwhelming #'s to succeed.
Wanna have your fun and probably NO ONE will have much negative to say?  Take your NOE mission and go to a base that has activity, that has planes taking off and landing.  Go TO the fight and don't do "whatever it takes at all costs" to avoid combat and you will find your style of play more positively accepted.
Years ago, Mathman used to log into the arena and greet everyone in there with a message saying something like "Greetings esteemed enemies, the Bish now declare war" and you KNEW he was forming a mission.  Difference is, it was usually a long one, with gobs of buff and as many escorts, all at 20K or above, flying from several sectors away.  He formed missions that INVITED a fight, let you know he was up to something, let you know he wanted you to try and defend against it.
Nowadays, the norm seems to be to sneak a base if you can(again, great tactics if you want to avoid fights), but just in case you can't, make sure you take, oh....at least 20 guys with you just in case someone actually spots you and tries to fight back.
Disclaimer:  Large numbers are not needed if the pilots involved have any skill whatsoever.  Week before last I spotted a NOE raid inbound to a base in the far corner of a map.  Turned out to be 3-4 110's and two F4U's (one was H5117) and the goon.  That was it.  Yeah, my sucky flying (and frustration from fighting off NOE hordes most of the evening prior to this) allowed them an easy capture, but the point is, you don't have to have a large group to accomplish a base capture.  
Take your entourage of pilots and go hit a base that you know will be defended.  See what happens.  Come back here and tell how THAT goes.

[Masherbrum]

You consider this the real world?

Fred

You lose. 

[DCCBOSS]

I admit I was possessed by the evil spirit of unrepentant pwn, and by the grace of your shining example of tactical, strategic, and technical savvy, I now see the light!  I will henceforth adress people whom I wish to Befriend and Sooth, or BS, by the title of Sir, because that changes everything.

I never said I was the strategic giant or that I have technical savey that exceeds you, "so you can it", why not just be honest in your self assessment before you stand out on the stage and preach to us lower forms of AH members.  

[moot]

Preach on brother Sir!  Down with non-existant giants and non-existant class warfare!  The cat is out of the bag on the truth about the collision model!  Down with no-nonsense factual argumentism! It's time for the truth to come out about higher and lower forms of AH members!!  The people must know about the ACM/SA hoax!!  It's all made up!  We pay 15$, we deserve the truth!

[Steve]

I hate to say don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, sir I have been subjected too and witnessed too you zooming and picking off people when they clearly engaged on a 1v1 acm fight so don't sit there on a pedestal claiming your profound wisdom when it comes to this subject.

BS.    Post a film or it never happened

[TwentyFo]

Why do you care?

Fred

I'm just saying that he seems to not really be involved in the whole mission horde thing anymore.