Defining bad game-play

[Getback]

I have.  "Way they enjoy the game" is crummy wording, but yeah.

yes it is. I've amended.

[DamnedRen]

Like I said on the part of the post that you neglected to quote, I said it was a fine line. To me I'm in it for the fight, you maybe are more in it for one life to live, to retreat to fight another day.

Sure I try to RTB, whether I have kills or not, but if I'm in a fight, I'm in it to win, and more often than not that ends with a quick trip to the tower. You may be happy to turn tail and run to save your "life", and thats ok. You may lean a bit more to one side of the "line" than I do. The point is, if the guy has decide to quit the fight, then quit it. If your NOT quitting the fight, why run... so you can reset your advantage that the other player has worked out of you due to "wining the fight"?

You missed the point. A dogfight happens to have an objective. Otherwise why be there? If you are loosing the fight then you find a way to reset the fight. If that means you extend to gain an advantage from a disadvantage then that is part of a dogfight. To sit there and say, "well he got on my 6 so I'll just go level and die because both I and he deserve what's about to happen" is pure BS (spelled bolshevik). If I extend and retake the initiative and shoot him done then guess what...He died. I didn't. That is a dogfight. If you actually feel that because you happened to get an advantage on someone that you should then, and rightfully so (in your mind) be handed the kill. Then when I finally retire and can I really wanna start smokin whatever it is that you have.

Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

In a dogfight it's not over until someone goes down in flames. Period.

ps- you gotta tell me what yer on so I can start saving for it. 

I'm sure glad it's not your football...No one would be playing here.

Ren

[mechanic]

Pretty much everyone involved in this thread, on both sides, plays what they preach nearly to a tee.

from my poxy 5.5 years of experience i say not true.. There are a few ive seen who posted here who are 100% genuine (not meaning myself, im definitely full of crap im not even 30 years old yet). These people's posts generally are shorter than even this explanation i'm giving now. One that comes to mind is Oldman.

The rest of us in this thread are totaly full of ourselves, casting opinions like anyone should care and we refuse to see the fun as a focus point. How very human of us, why expect anything more?

[BnZs]

You're all so full of piss and wind. 

You don't believe I take every advantage and run like hell whenever I want to?

[mechanic]

Um...er...heh.....I just don't believe this thread full stop

[DamnedRen]

I think my point which has the same value as anyone else's...rated from 0-100....is

As long as you get up and have fun and don't pout and whine because someone isn't playing the game the way you think it should be then the odds are this type of thread would never rear it's ugly head.

I'd bet more time spent in the air fighting is a heck of a lot more fun than reading/writing this stuff anyway.

Well, knowing some of you....I could be wrong. 

I'm going flying

Ren

[The Fugitive]

You missed the point. A dogfight happens to have an objective. Otherwise why be there? If you are loosing the fight then you find a way to reset the fight. If that means you extend to gain an advantage from a disadvantage then that is part of a dogfight. To sit there and say, "well he got on my 6 so I'll just go level and die because both I and he deserve what's about to happen" is pure BS (spelled bolshevik). If I extend and retake the initiative and shoot him done then guess what...He died. I didn't. That is a dogfight. If you actually feel that because you happened to get an advantage on someone that you should then, and rightfully so (in your mind) be handed the kill. Then when I finally retire and can I really wanna start smokin whatever it is that you have.

Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

In a dogfight it's not over until someone goes down in flames. Period.

ps- you gotta tell me what yer on so I can start saving for it. 

I'm sure glad it's not your football...No one would be playing here.

Ren

First off I don't know why you have such a bug up your bellybutton here, we are just discussing things and everyone has an opinion.

Second, you said so yourself, you run to "reset the fight" so that means you have given up on the present one and are looking to make a new one. To me, like you said a fight is until one is dead, so I'd stay in the fight and try some of that "pilot crap" they talk about to turn the position around. Also like I said I end up in the tower often, which is ok with me.

Third this thread was about mediocre play and using lame game play to keep up with those that are willing to spend some time to learn. I threw together a list of what I though most people would concider lame game play and suggest we all work to point out such a list to the other players.

    * HOs lame
    * dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
    * running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
    * spawn camping lame
    * being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
    * suicide dive bombers lame
    * bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
    * hiding captured CVs lame

So Ren, would you say that the above list would be something that people should add to their list of things to excel at? Are these the "tactics" ( and I use that term as loosely as possible here) that should be pushed into the game, or out? Because today we are seeing it pushed in more than ever.

Like I said before, you can fight how you like, its your dime, but its not how I fly a fight. The line is viewed a bit different from your side, but while I don't like it I wouldn't consider it lame game play. Much like Mace values his "game life" who am I to say other wise.

All I'm trying to do here is to point out the lame game play that has infested this game. 5 years ago it was much better, and you know it, because you were there. The only hordes where furballs, and more often than not the land grabber left them alone. BnZ, turn fighting, furball, strategic, and tactical play was all there with very little "griefing". Today its who has the biggest steam roller.... great improvement!

[wrag]

First off I don't know why you have such a bug up your bellybutton here, we are just discussing things and everyone has an opinion.

Second, you said so yourself, you run to "reset the fight" so that means you have given up on the present one and are looking to make a new one. To me, like you said a fight is until one is dead, so I'd stay in the fight and try some of that "pilot crap" they talk about to turn the position around. Also like I said I end up in the tower often, which is ok with me.

Third this thread was about mediocre play and using lame game play to keep up with those that are willing to spend some time to learn. I threw together a list of what I though most people would concider lame game play and suggest we all work to point out such a list to the other players.

    * HOs lame
    * dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
    * running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
    * spawn camping lame
    * being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
    * suicide dive bombers lame
    * bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
    * hiding captured CVs lame

So Ren, would you say that the above list would be something that people should add to their list of things to excel at? Are these the "tactics" ( and I use that term as loosely as possible here) that should be pushed into the game, or out? Because today we are seeing it pushed in more than ever.

Like I said before, you can fight how you like, its your dime, but its not how I fly a fight. The line is viewed a bit different from your side, but while I don't like it I wouldn't consider it lame game play. Much like Mace values his "game life" who am I to say other wise.

All I'm trying to do here is to point out the lame game play that has infested this game. 5 years ago it was much better, and you know it, because you were there. The only hordes where furballs, and more often than not the land grabber left them alone. BnZ, turn fighting, furball, strategic, and tactical play was all there with very little "griefing". Today its who has the biggest steam roller.... great improvement!

HEY!!!

You left out the most important lame things!

   * shooting at wrag
   * shooting at and hitting wrag

And the LAMEST thing!

   * shooting down wrag!


There all fixed!

[Delirium]

Only one group can define bad game play or do anything about it, and they all work at HTC.

[DamnedRen]

Third this thread was about mediocre play and using lame game play to keep up with those that are willing to spend some time to learn. I threw together a list of what I though most people would concider lame game play and suggest we all work to point out such a list to the other players.

    * HOs lame
    * dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
    * running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
    * spawn camping lame
    * being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
    * suicide dive bombers lame
    * bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
    * hiding captured CVs lame

So Ren, would you say that the above list would be something that people should add to their list of things to excel at? Are these the "tactics" ( and I use that term as loosely as possible here) that should be pushed into the game, or out? Because today we are seeing it pushed in more than ever.

WHINE WHINE WHINE

If you spent as much time flying as you do here whinin about your perception of bad game play maybe you'd enjoy the game. Do you honestly think if life was that bad in AH that HTC wouldn't fix it?

I already answered directly above this reply you made.

Deli did the same directly below your reply.

At some point in time some folks need to grow up and look at the game for what it is, a game. If some guy is allowed to dive bomb in a buff then learn to deal with it. If some guy vulchs or shoots chutes, deal with it. Spawn camping? Has anyone put the breaks on it? Doesn't seem to be the case. Did anyone tell anyone they actually had to spawn at a camped spawn point? Deal with it. 6th guy in? LOL, a waste of his time but it's his dime? Lame? To whom? Me? I don't care what he does. Aw, did someone steal yer kill? (whine on). Were you numma 1? 3? 5? LOL. HO's? Did anyone turn em off? No? Then its a part of the game. Deal with it. Just because I don't teach people to HO doesn't mean they won't in the other arenas. I personally learned to get outa the way iso of cry "lame". Other than that I take what comes at me in the arenas. Deal with it. NOE? A horde is lame to you. To me it's an opportunity to fight.
 
The game comes with stipulations. It's set up the way it is because someone decide it's the way it's gonna be. You joined and began flying. Since that first day everything that is going on today was exactly the same as then. It hasn't changed. Somehow I don't think the first guy you ever HO'd ran to the boards and whined about it on every other thread. And don't tell me that in all the time you've ever flown any flight sim game that you never took a HO on someone. If for no other reason that you didn't know better. I remember my very first time in an arena like it was yesterday. I got up in a FW190D and managed to get it off the ground. I saw two planes and flew over to them. I was dumbfounded that they didn't try and kill me. I flew somewhat close and let loose a burst and missed by a mile. One  called me a DA and a dweeb and said please shoot the red guys. Really? Well I'll be darned! That was even this game but it happens almost nightly here. Hmmm, killshooter on or off?

You talk about fighting the good fight yet yer too lazy to actually have to deal with it and fall back on the boards with a lame, lame, lame to everything you don't like. It's an attitude problem. You need to get over it and go fly. Sometimes helping is dealing with it. If it means shooting down the dive bombin bufff every single time to show them the error of their ways then do it. They might even stop and begin learning how to do it right although right is only in the minds of the game builder since they allow what happens. Not you or I. Or you can whine on the boards. 

But if you do that's lame. 

Bug up my butt? Maybe. IMHO a vet is someone who knows better and leads by example, every day, iso whines.

Ren

[LLogann]

Why would they start to add definitions?  Not the business they do.  We are all discussing here how to make the game more narrow, less attractive to the masses even..........  I don't think that's something they are looking to do.

(Image removed from quote.)

Only one group can define bad game play or do anything about it, and they all work at HTC.

[DamnedRen]

Why would they start to add definitions?  Not the business they do.  We are all discussing here how to make the game more narrow, less attractive to the masses even..........  I don't think that's something they are looking to do.

That's the reason I respond to these types of threads. They are counter productive to the game. IMHO if yer dealt a hand to play with then that's what you play with.  The deck has it all. You get so many cards. YOU chose to keep or toss some and work with any new ones yer handed. You also end up with what you get, whether you happen to like that hand or not.  It interesting to note some folks would toss different cards from the same hand. That's the difference in how some folks play the game but the game is still played the same for everyone. I have yet to see anyone write a thread about bad poker play. They may play their hands differently than others but it's their hand to play, win or lose. It's no different in football (team play).  Two/three guys barrel in on the guy with the ball is fine. 'Cept for the guy taking the hit. The rules say its fine. So they do it. It's no different in AH2.

Ren

[Oldman731]

That's the reason I respond to these types of threads. They are counter productive to the game.

And yet....So many people over the years have expressed their desire to have old-timers show new folks how to play the game well.  Unless people post their views on good play, this will never happen.  Can't have it both ways - teach me good form, but I don't want to hear it because I'm going to do what I'm going to do.

Those who don't want to hear it, of course, are free to skip over these threads entirely, and probably they do.

- oldman

[DamnedRen]

And yet....So many people over the years have expressed their desire to have old-timers show new folks how to play the game well.  Unless people post their views on good play, this will never happen.  Can't have it both ways - teach me good form, but I don't want to hear it because I'm going to do what I'm going to do.
- oldman

Agreed. However, a post detailing how you rolled in on group of buffs is much more productive than a post whinin about those dive bombin buffs. Or, how you easily avoided a HO and got onto the guys 6 and shot him down is much more productive than the same post being a whine about too many HO's. It doesn't even matter if it's a "look at me" post so much as it sends a subtle message to all that HO'n doesn't net you anything more than a quick trip to the tower. How about, a post subject, "how we broke up an NOE mission".

When was the last time you saw a post subject like, "man, I really luv dat LA7"? Iso, "gawd, lame LA7 drivers should be banned!".

See the difference?

Ren

[The Fugitive]

I remember my very first time in an arena like it was yesterday. I got up in a FW190D and managed to get it off the ground. I saw two planes and flew over to them. I was dumbfounded that they didn't try and kill me. I flew somewhat close and let loose a burst and missed by a mile. One  called me a DA and a dweeb and said please shoot the red guys. Really? Well I'll be darned!

....and thats what I'm talking about, being one of those guys that said " please shoot the red guys", because for the most part these players don't know any better.

I'm just pointing out that it was better, and its getting worst. Too many "quake style" players are looking for the "short cuts", the "codes", the "hacks" because thats the only way they know how to play games.

I guess your one of those bitter old guys that just rolls over and settles for whats there. Why should we have to "settle" for poor game play? Why not try to educate the masses that there is a better way? We all know what happened the last time HTC "fixed" the slums the arena was becoming, what will his next fix be?