Defining bad game-play

[Murdr]

...dup post

[Lusche]

Why not just turn and kill him with the hispanos?

Oh, that's what I'm doing most of the time. Or better: I try, for occasionally I fail, the LA prevails and 50 perks are down the drain

But sometimes I have the feeling the LA might be greedy but not exactly smart...

[moot]

There is. No one's willing to care enough to change the way they play except just one guy.  Another finality.. Hordes will continue to be mostly players who refuse to make the minimal effort of learning basic dogfighting, and consequently keep getting clubbed like blind baby seals.

[moot]

Wow.. look at those freakin duplicate posts... %^&*( ISP.

[moot]

Could you be?  Frank that is?  I don't see what you're going on about?

If you can't see how this is disingenuous, then I'm afraid it's not worth trying to argue:

Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

In any case.. I don't care anymore.  If the players just can't see plain simple basics of gameplay dynamics, like that bringing 20+ to a small field, and having such an unflexible sense of balance that they don't have the initiative to divert at least a fraction to some other target, is bad gameplay... When you've got experienced players dismissing the anti-gameplay patterns in the game by mischaracterizing the arguments brought up against those patterns.. Well.. I don't see the point in trying to argue, as far as I'm concerned.

[Delirium]

I guess your one of those bitter old guys that just rolls over and settles for whats there. Why should we have to "settle" for poor game play? Why not try to educate the masses that there is a better way?

Fugitive, we have been friends for a long time. I respect you and I echo your sentiment, but not the approach to fix the problem.

Quietly, I have had many students but not all of them are strict furballers. If I force a certain play style, they will cease to look for help and may never look at the dogfight with any interest ever again. To some degree, my 'Traveling Circus' is the same way; the different squads I visit teach me something and sometimes I teach them something. It has made me respect differing gameplay styles more, even if I wouldn't want to emulate them on a long term basis.

As the old saying goes, 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'. I have changed this in my mind to properly reflect AH; 'You can teach a horse to run, but he may not leave the other horses in the herd'.

[moot]

The point is to show the horses that they can turn in more than one direction.  Not to make them leave their herd.

[Delirium]

The point is to show the horses that they can turn in more than one direction.  Not to make them leave their herd.

Problem is, if they turn in a different direction they leave the herd. That is one of the reason there is a huge divide between the furballers and the war winners, we run in different directions.

[moot]

No, they scissor and barrel at will to effectively keep the same net heading, keeping formation with the herd, while the other horses are stuck in a one dimensional world.  The proper furballers and war winners run in the same direction. Air combat.  This distinction is one of the misunderstandings here.  Dismissal of which is what I meant is disingenuous.

[Delirium]

The proper furballers and war winners run in the same direction. Air combat.  This distinction is one of the misunderstandings here.  Dismissal of which is what I meant is disingenuous.

I disagree, the only reason air combat is the common theme is because it is the only medium for both sides to express themselves. If a different medium was available the differences would be even more glaring.

The two groups have to find some mutually acceptable gameplay that doesn't affect the other negatively, but I'm not sure this will ever happen.

[moot]

Nope... Furballers and War Winners both converge on Air Combat, to go on to different goals, but Air Combat is nonetheless both's bread and butter.  I'm not sure what you envision as alternative mediums, but the bottom line is they don't exist, so they're a moot point.

[Scotch]

Sounds like a great use of time.   

Sounds boring as hell.
Glad the game has come to that.

[Scotch]

Being part of a horde is just ridiculous. I try to stay away from these as I have enough trouble fighting the red guys without having to bump off friendlies also

Why were you one of five on me the other night?

Don't just type it. Do it.

[TequilaChaser]

I disagree, the only reason air combat is the common theme is because it is the only medium for both sides to express themselves. If a different medium was available the differences would be even more glaring.

The two groups have to find some mutually acceptable gameplay that doesn't affect the other negatively, but I'm not sure this will ever happen.

So in a nutshell...........All Main Arenas, AvsA, Training Arena and Dueling arena are for nothing more than practice..practice..and practice only ( with the side effects of whining childs play )

The Real rewards of Aces high and the Real Game comes from meeting new friends, the comradery of the friends you meet and making it all work as a group with all that  practice for the Real events of the Special events that Aces High offers:

• Well Organized Scenarios
• Well Organized FSO events ( Friday Night Squadron Ops )
• Well Organized Snapshots
• Well Organized Aces High Extreme Racing League
• Well Organized Monthly KOTH events
• Well Organized Sunday Night Scrambles
• Well Organized Aces High Squad Dueling Ladder
• AvsA special events when held
• Special Events held by Clubs/Pillars of the community that want to help improve or help preserve what Aces High gameplay has to truely offer to the new  or unknowing players of the game

I see allot of peoples different "atitudes" prevailing, when there is no need for it.......

Fugitive is an Aces high Member who cares about the game he plays, he devotes his time to better help the community, although it is in a different way than for instance, how I volunteer to help give back, as it is even different than say Bulethead's way or say Greebo's way of helping give back to the game we all love........

I for one can at least see this , if none of the rest of you can......... I surely would not say he is "WHINIG" about anything....he is just standing his ground on the what he feels is right, himself..........and each and everyone of use has our own opinion of what we think is right and what is wrong with the gameplay......some people are just more vocal..nothing more/nothing less.....

you got to stand up for what you believe in........ I believe in better gameplay for the entire community.......

Good Night everyone.........I think we should let ths thread end..........

[Delirium]

Nope... Furballers and War Winners both converge on Air Combat, to go on to different goals, but Air Combat is nonetheless both's bread and butter.  I'm not sure what you envision as alternative mediums, but the bottom line is they don't exist, so they're a moot point.

It is a simple distinction between individual vs group accomplishments and they are viewed by both groups.

If Aces High was only a tank sim, the 'furballers' would be the ones priding themselves on being able to kill multiple tanks or firing on the run while the 'war winners' would focus on any refinement of group tactics. There may be some cross over depending on associated comfort levels, but the general outcome would be the same.

Both sides, as long as they are having fun and are respectful of one another, are great for Aces High.