AH is (again) a medium and the way the two different groups approach combat within it is what makes them different.
Group tactics and individual ability are different animals and are rarely ever combined.
What I said is as long as both sides are respectful of one another, good gameplay will be the outcome. I suppose you could have a 1v50 dogfight and it could be considered air combat, but that type of aircombat breeds nothing but contempt and boredom.
Del, I appreciate what you do for the game. I wish I could do the same, but as a teacher, well I just don't have it. I have trouble spotting what I did wrong in a fight never mind what somebody else is doing. So my contributions are more on the informational side. I've built my Flash animations ( and hope to continue with that), as well as trying to keep info about the game going here.
In the discussion, I think the biggest issue between the players, and the horde is the "lack" of combat. There are a number of squads that while they are primarily "landgrab/win the war" type squad they are not of the same variety as the "horde" type players. Horde player generally lack skill, were as these other players understand how to fight. They use "combat" to accomplish the goals they set out for themselves whether that's capturing a base, winging as a group, or driving GVs.
The LTARs are a good example. While they do spawn camp now and then, they were primarily a strong ground attack group. In defense they could hold a base with 4 or 5 guys, in attacking they would hit bases from multiple sides at once making it harder to defend. The horde on the other hand would just bring 20 guys are roll strait in hoping to have someone left to cap the hanger when they got to the base.
A lot... NOT ALL, players these days don't use the resources available to get better at the game. They jump in to the biggest group and even though they rarely contribute much to an attack they feel they accomplished something by being in on the capture. Good game play means combat, bad game play means avoiding combat.
As you said earlier it's not black and white. There are several statements throughout that make the assumption that every reader is a 5th year player and knows the deal. However much of it is misleading to those not in the know due to lack of context. So you can call it dismissive or whatever, but I'm (as are most of the Trainers) quite serious about the bastardization of ACM to what some faction thinks it should be, or "[insert tactic] is lame" when in reality it is "lame" under X conditions and perfectly valid under Y conditions.
As I said, there is a fine line we are talking about. To me If I get into the position that I have to run and reset the fight, I consider that a loss because I didn't over come the tactics of my opponent. Does that mean that I fly strait and give them the kill? Hell no
I'm going to try every trick I know to turn the tables back to my advantage short of leaving the fight. Ren and you both believe that running and resetting the fight is the way to go, and thats ok. I would think that if you spent a few minutes getting your "E" back and come back to the fight to see the same enemy now fighting a couple of people you wouldn't re-engage. Ganging the guy would be a bit lame.
On the other hand, if the guy that runs is a newb and is running because he doesn't know any other tricks, and is looking to reset the fight by having the opponent become occupied by a couple of other players so he could gang with little fear of getting shot down himself, then I would call that lame. Todays players are looking for the short cuts. Vets like you, Ren, Moot and so many other spent hours upon hours learning everything we could about these games. Tactics, maneuvers, strategies, and then we spent hours upon hour trying to practice them, and then we spent hour upon hour trying them out in the arenas. Most of todays players can't be bothered with finding the on-line manual let alone read it. How can anyone expect them to understand the difference between lame game play, and good game play without some of us pointing it out?
Murdr, out of curiosity, which ones on my list would you NOT consider lame and why? That was the reason I put up a list as a starting point of discussion. Sure there is some gray area involved in everything, but I'd still like to hear yours, as well as others, reasoning.
Fugitive is an Aces high Member who cares about the game he plays, he devotes his time to better help the community, although it is in a different way than for instance, how I volunteer to help give back, as it is even different than say Bulethead's way or say Greebo's way of helping give back to the game we all love........
Thank-you TC, that is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm sure I sound like a "nag" at times, but if 1 person in 10 comes away just thinking about what I said, I'd be happy. Maybe that small infection might spread and we'll get a few ore people "thinking" and looking at how the game is played.
I clearly am not logging as many hours as I used to. I had fun tonite. I died a lot, fought on the deck pretty much constantly, and took a lot with me. I didn't think much about the overall scheme of things, just had fun. I need to remind myself to stick to that more often 
That being said. One of the things that gets mentioned a lot is the community or the social dymamics of the game. That is what has changed the most to me since I first started in Airwarrior back in 96. Because of how the numbers have grown, the community as a whole has much less of an impact on the groups within the 'community. We don't get to know each other as well and the desire to fit in and be a part of the community is more based on finding the largest group to be in.
I agreed Dan, there is still fun to be had, sometimes its a bit harder to find these days, but its still there. Thats why I stay, and why I stand up for better play.
I think the numbers have something to do with it too. In AW I was a PAC guy and flew in a big squad. On most nights you knew 90% of the other players on your team because they always flew at the same times as you did. The same happened on the other teams as well, thats why the squad rivalries developed. The Mafia was always butting heads with the MAW, and made for some awesome fights. Today there are 100 people flying on your team, and unless you fly a lot, you barely know 20% of them.
Maybe thats another factor to why us old timers worked at getting better and the new guys don't. You would run into the same "enemies" time and time again in a single night and it would ignite that fire in you to finally shoot down that one guy that keeps killing you over and over again. You don't see the same guys time and time again these days unless your vulching, so the drive isn't there.
All in all, I'm NOT saying the game is junk and the hordlings have taken over, but there is an infection and its growing. I think educating the newer players what the community considers lame/poor game play is everyones job. If everyone that moves into your neighborhood starts shop lifting and the community allows it to go on they are just as guilty as the shop lifters, and then shoplifting becomes the norm.
