KI84-variants

[zuii]

From what i understand

Ki-84-Ia   2 × 12.7mm and 2 × Ho-5 cannons in wings

Ki-84-Ib   4 × 20mm Ho-5 cannons

Ki-84-Ic   2 × 20mm Ho-5 cannons and 2 × 30mm Ho-155 cannons in wings. (ouch)


zuii

[LLogann]

Can we trust Japanese data, on a Japanese fighter, in the last glory days of the Japanese Empire? 

Call or email Pyro at HTC. 

[Karnak]

Can we trust Japanese data, on a Japanese fighter, in the last glory days of the Japanese Empire? 

It seems pretty reliable so far.  The Ki-84 and N1K2 in AH are based on Japanese data, not the US data from higher octane tests.

Mind you, the Ki-84-Ic is not going to happen as it did not see combat and only had a few examples produced.  The Ki-84-Ib is reasonable though as it did see combat and about 500 were built.

[Motherland]

Can we trust Japanese data, on a Japanese fighter, in the last glory days of the Japanese Empire? 

Can we trust German data? Soviet data? British Data? American Data?
Really I'd be more inclined to trust the data of a country that was about to be decimated (why would they want to exaggerate? What would they have to gain?), than data of one of the countries that would be the major players in a post-war world of lies and propaganda.

[Krusty]

German data? Within reason
US data? Most of the time (in relation to their own planes, there are exceptions)
RAF data? Most of the time.

Soviet data? No. Their heads were often at risk of receiving multiple bullet awards if things didn't pander to Stalin's sociopathing delusions, so they said whatever they had to to please him. They re-wrote history to please him, and he believed it. Even things being unearthed today are suspect if the sources are Soviet. The corruption was totally indoctrinated into the system.

[Krusty]

Let me elaborate. It's not the STATE of the country that produces the info. It's the reliability and trustworthiness of the government publishing the info. Hitler was totally insane, but his air leaders weren't. Many of the LW served their country and their arm of the military, NOT Hitler. So when the reports came out they were for people that needed to know the truth.

As opposed to Soviet reports, where everybody gave up any moral compass to save their collective skins. Throwing untrained bodies into the meat grinder was their main tactic and they did it with relish.

Now the Japanese.... Tough example. On the one had they had so little common sense and sense of reason that they thought charging machine guns while unarmed, for some guy 2000mi away sitting on a throne, was their duty. On the other hand, they understood their position with a bit of defeatism, and knew they were up against a massive enemy, so their military leaders were more likely to tell the truth. IMO you could go either way, but a lot of info seems to be pretty good quality from Japanese sources.

[zuii]

There were also some variants made with wooden parts (due to the obvious production issues japan had in the last few years of the war), again i have no reliable data on if any of those were fielded, but if so, would be cool to have those versions added, though they might blow up like a zero soaked in lighter fluid and covered with yard trimmings.


zuii

[JunkyII]

KI84 is great plane, I would love to see anything that would just add more to the 84. +1

[Ruah]

425 on the deck in what parallel universe?

We started out with a plane that had no WEP and a max boost of 200. Through extensive researching into historical documents (in Japanese, no less) one forum member supplied HTC with more accurate numbers, giving us our current performance in-game, not to mention the addition of 450-boost WEP for 3 minutes.

Don't believe everything you read, ESPECIALLY about certain Japanese planes and the propoganda that surrounds them on the Internet. Case in point the Ki84. Another case in point the Ki-100 (just to whet your whistle).

For sure, but the figure is from the US Navy, not from the Japanese.  The Japanese figures are much higher actually. . .like near jet speeds lol.

The point is this - in this game, all the planes use the best fuel, have ideal construction materials and quality controls, and are fighting with their best colors on.  This plane was better then the P51D except above 10k/15k and this fact is recognized by the U.S. sources and pilots.  What hurt the plane was poor quality control (which should not be a factor in AH imo), poor quality of pilots post 43 (which is not a factor in AH since we keep coming back to life), and a lack of significant numbers deployed.  So we agree on this. . . all I'm saying is, the top speed and durability of the plane is really nurfed too much. . .the KI-84 was one of the best planes made in the war.  Its up there with the best all the countries had.

there is a pdf file out there for the 84 by Aerodetail, 024 - KI 84 Frank at  -- http://www.valentina.sk/archiv/archiv.php  (they have some good stuff here. . .) have a look.  I'm off to the archives today to find some documentation. . .  What I am trying to push for is more quality control for the plane in the game, not a massive buff to its top speed. . .just a light boost in speed (take the wep if its not accurate - make it like the YAK), a lot more durability in terms of pilot protection and self sealing tanks and that it stop falling apart on dives. . .its a good plane as it is so too much would make it imba.  And yes, the variations.


Ruah

[moot]

Not all planes use the best fuel types they had available.. Not nearly.

[Karnak]

425mph was the figure the US got using 100 octane fuel at about 20,000ft, not at sea level.

The Japanese figues I have seen are all lower than that, ranging from 388mph to suggestions of slightly over 400mph depending on the version of the engine.

[Wmaker]

425mph was the figure the US got using 100 octane fuel at about 20,000ft, not at sea level.

I've understood that the US tests were carried out with 140 octane fuel.

[Karnak]

I've understood that the US tests were carried out with 140 octane fuel.

I doubt the engine could take those boost settings.  As I recall it was designed, optimisitcally, for 100 octane.

[Wmaker]

I doubt the engine could take those boost settings.  As I recall it was designed, optimisitcally, for 100 octane.

An engine doesn't have to be pushed beyond of what it can take even if the fuel used is higher octane. According to Leszek A. Wieliczko's KI-84 book which seems quite well researched the fuel was 140 octane. In the Internet, 100 octane seems to be mentioned as often as the 140 octane figure.

[Karnak]

An engine doesn't have to be pushed beyond of what it can take even if the fuel used is higher octane. According to Leszek A. Wieliczko's KI-84 book which seems quite well researched the fuel was 140 octane. In the Internet, 100 octane seems to be mentioned as often as the 140 octane figure.

Ah.

That leads to the next question, what were the boost settings it ran at for the US tests?