Author Topic: Dumbest...Program...Ever...  (Read 1535 times)

Offline Saxman

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2009, 10:30:45 AM »
By balanced I meant the overall combination of the arsenals. The arrows DID have range on the thrown spear and the Naginata has a clear reach advantage over the long-axe (that was NOT a "great axe") however the Viking's shield (if it is actually USED) counters a LOT of the weaponry--and with the sort of weapons the two parties had, the Viking would have almost DEFINITELY used his shield for the duration of the fight.

And I agree on the kanabo. In fact, the kanabo was an unfair addition because as I said, MOST references to it as a weapon I could find suggest it was more a mythological than practical one. They may as well have let the Viking use Mjolnir. And the sort of swing the Samurai would need to make in order to break a properly-constructed shield with one solid blow would throw him horribly off-balance, and the construction of the shield doesn't even guarantee that it would be rendered useless. All the Viking would need to do is step aside and angle the shield that it deflects the strike away, (an experienced fighter probably wouldn't just BLOCK a heavy stroke like that, he'd angle his shield to redirect the energy of the blow somewhere else) then run up on him into close quarters where the weapon would be useless.

Now I'll admit that I'm not as familiar with the katana, but despite its cutting power, from a design standpoint it's EXTREMELY limited to slicing/slashing attacks. The curved blade greatly limits it's thrusting ability, which eliminates the sort of half-sword techniques longsword could apply against a shield (and thrusting is the best way for a sword to get through mail). The blade is single-edged, so the Samurai wouldn't be able to hook around the shield to deliver a short-edge cut. The hilt design also doesn't facilitate the sort of hooking techniques that a longsword could employ against the shield with its pommel or guard (one I'm learning is to hold the longsword in half-sword on the left side, hilt forward. Then in a windmilling motion, hook the top of the shield down with the pommel and rotate through to deliver a half-sword thrust downward over the top of the shield, into the chest or shoulder).

Of course, the fight at the end boiled down to katana vs. Viking sword with no shield. The katana WOULD have been slightly faster, (and little if ANY lighter) and had a bit better reach over a Viking-era sword, however at this point it would have been down ENTIRELY to the individual fighters and would have gone either way.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2009, 11:13:41 AM »
Vikings had bows, almost everyone had bows. If we wanted to make it a "stand off and shoot arrows at each other" contest, rather boring I say. :D


The katana WOULD have been slightly faster, (and little if ANY lighter) and had a bit better reach over a Viking-era sword, however at this point it would have been down ENTIRELY to the individual fighters and would have gone either way.

? I did some informal comparisons once, and European cutting swords averaged somewhat lighter in relation to their length than Japanese swords. Especially migration/Viking era blades. I'm talking ballpark ~2 lbs vs. ~2.5 lbs here for a sword compared against a katana of similar blade length. Nihonto have a thicker cross-section than is typical with a European cutting sword. Myths of god-like metallurgical prowess aside, most Japanese swords were not forged with the side-to-side resiliency to flex and return to true like a flatter European cutting sword.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2009, 11:26:17 AM »
Vikings had bows, almost everyone had bows. If we wanted to make it a "stand off and shoot arrows at each other" contest, rather boring I say. :D


Among the Norse proficiency with the bow in battle was as highly prized and glorified in the sagas as any other martial skill. Less so with the Anglo-Saxons, however.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2009, 11:58:16 AM »
I can also say that in more "informal" testing, back when I was doing this sort of thing, George Silver's method stacks up well against Kendo.
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Offline bobtom

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2009, 12:16:36 PM »
This is even WORSE.

Worse than dogfights?

I might have to watch it..

Offline stodd

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2009, 02:04:03 PM »
Dogfights is a joke :rofl I watched an episode one time where they were showing the stats on the 190a8(speed, turn performace, guns etc) and it actually said that the 190a8 was armed with 4 30mm guns.
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Offline lefty320

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2009, 06:04:16 PM »
Think Deadliest Warrior is more for those people who just want to watch dummies' heads chopped off. It's more based on the action and entertainment than the actual Science. Same with Dogfights. 
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Offline alskahawk

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2009, 10:33:37 PM »
Think Deadliest Warrior is more for those people who just want to watch dummies' heads chopped off. It's more based on the action and entertainment than the actual Science. Same with Dogfights. 

 Yup.. Very disapointed in dogfights.. Deadliest warrior is to military history what Britney Spears is to music..not for real history/military buffs.

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2009, 10:41:31 PM »
I'd rather watch Deadliest Warrior than Wife Swap (have never seen either one yet).    There are MANY programs worse than it. 

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Offline alskahawk

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2009, 10:51:12 PM »
I'd rather watch Deadliest Warrior than Wife Swap (have never seen either one yet).    There are MANY programs worse than it. 



 Ya, can't even get thru 5 min of wife swap.

Offline moot

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2009, 07:07:33 AM »
Wife swap sounds like something out of Al Jazeera's programme.
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Offline Speed55

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2009, 07:31:58 AM »
I'd rather watch Deadliest Warrior than Wife Swap (have never seen either one yet).    There are MANY programs worse than it. 


Of course there a ton of junk shows out there, but isn't wife swap another doap opera type show for women. 

Deadliest Warrior was built up to be something it's not,  instead it's an Epic fail.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2009, 08:21:21 AM »
Of course there a ton of junk shows out there, but isn't wife swap another doap opera type show for women. 

Deadliest Warrior was built up to be something it's not,  instead it's an Epic fail.

Again, you're preaching to the choir.   Re-read what I typed and understand what I said.   
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Offline Speed55

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2009, 08:24:20 AM »
I do... lol.. your better off reading a book. Or listening to floyd,  or reading a book and listening to floyd.   :salute
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Offline Angus

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Re: Dumbest...Program...Ever...
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2009, 10:30:36 AM »
Some points on the Vikings....my ancestors. (Icelander). Oh,and they lived where I do. Part of the base education here as well.

- From ancient graves it has been concluded that the Viking people were rather on the big side. That means about the size of modern people, but much much stronger. Later (medievals) people went smaller. So, big strong guys, grown up to be tough.
- Viking tactics were mostly hit & run, since they were in essence raiders. Sometimes they fought in bigger armies, sometimes not. They would choose fierce close quarters combat, and prefer a possible exit.
- Vikings would avoid armies that were heavily armed, such as the armies on the mainland of i.e. France.
- The preferred main weapon was the axe and sword, sometimes both. Axe for the deadly hack, or even throwing it. Sword...as a sword, and the Bow as well.
- That said, Vikings were raiding all over, they went deep into Russia, all over the Baltic, down to Constantinopel, probably along the coasts of N-Africa as well. Their weapons were from ALL OVER. From my neighbourhood, a 1000 year old accessory from a Hun-Bow was excavated. That was the finest known bow at the given time. So their weapons were not all the same, and they were liberal in letting the individual use what he was best at.

Vikings vs Japanese....tough question. Probably would end up with everybody dead ....ARRRR
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