Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy

[hitech]

Before the peanut gallery chimes in just because they love to see you rip on people, you're missing the point of the criticism HT.  It's about consistent standards of what to model realistically, not realism itself.  You've done a great job at modeling auto-cannons with historically correct rates of fire and physically correct recoil, but they're pointing out that the Il-2's 37mm and wirbelwind's rate of fire don't seem up to the same standard of your previous work.

I am not missing anything, the fact is the same non sync would happen to almost all guns, but he chooses to pick on one thing, he does not like the way we model guns. He wants gun jams, increased dispersion with gun heating and then this great quote 'that are not being fully researched or tested correctly."  What a complete utter load of BS. Could it be that we choose not to model those aspects of the game because we believe it would only distract from the game and really add nothing to it.

Think of gun jams for a min, all they would do is be a nuisance and require a person to press one more key to unjam and then continue to fire. Sorry forceing some one to press another key quickly really does not add to the fun, nor simulation of a fight. And lets look at the out come of continual fire vs non continual fire. Who is going to just hold down the key and shoot a lot of bullets. It is not the experienced people because they already would not want to waist there ammo. The new people already have an extremely hard time shooting anything, so all you have done with this type of modeling is making it more of a pain for new people, while doing nothing to ad to the fun of game play.

And why it is selective is simply because he jumps in about only the way the guns are modeled, but uses "Realism" as a be all catch all quest to add to the game. Realism is only a tool to make a game imersive, enjoyable & fun for people to play. Gun jams are none of those things and only distract by having to press 1 more key and really would only effect the new players.

So does his quest also want 2 hour flight times before he is in enemy territory, or flying 30 sorties with out ever seeing an enemy, let alone fighting one? When a person wants a major change to the game, and his only argument is that it would be more realistic, it ALMOST always is a bad idea to implement.

HiTech

[Anaxogoras]

Pardon me then, I was referring to the more general points about RoF and recoil.  The rest of the criticsms you address are indeed misplaced because there is no precedent for gun jams and overheating, etc.

[Rich46yo]

When a person wants a major change to the game, and his only argument is that it would be more realistic, it ALMOST always is a bad idea to implement.

Actually when they usually want a major change its so it can help them and their preferred vehicles/way of playing.

Theres another trend in these IL2 whine threads also. That is the ones complaining themselves never, or very rarely, fly the thing. Notice they never cry out for "selective realism" in "their" favorite airplanes. Ive shot 0.50 Brownings. Believe me no game can make it feel real, most of all 6 or 8 at a time.

[Motherland]

I understand why random gun jams would be bad, but what would be so bad about un-synchronizing all the guns on planes that did not have synchronized guns?

[Anaxogoras]

I understand why random gun jams would be bad, but what would be so bad about un-synchronizing all the guns on planes that did not have synchronized guns?

Exactly bubi.  And the same goes for the wirbelwind's maximum sustained rate of fire, which is twice that of what it really was because of the reloading issue.

Most of us aren't screaming for razor sharp exactness, just something that's within the spirit of the law.

[waystin2]

Actually when they usually want a major change its so it can help them and their preferred vehicles/way of playing.

Theres another trend in these IL2 whine threads also. That is the ones complaining themselves never, or very rarely, fly the thing. Notice they never cry out for "selective realism" in "their" favorite airplanes. Ive shot 0.50 Brownings. Believe me no game can make it feel real, most of all 6 or 8 at a time.

Hello Rich,

First of all much respect Sir.  Second of all, this was never a whine nor an attempt to fit the game to my way of play.  This whole thread was born out of actual research on a subject that was interesting to me.  Further, I kill way more Il-2's than Il-2's killing me.  The nuggets about the unsyched guns was merely a bit of info I came across and decided to share with the community and Hitech.  Let Hitech do with it as they please, I am absolutely cool either way.  I would do the same with any plane or vehicle if I found new information that may apply to it's modeling. 

What is really interesting is how closely tied the Wirbelwind and the IL-2 are in peoples minds.  Kind of like they are the poison/antidote for each other.

 

Way

[hitech]

wastin2 Notice I did not jump on your posts. There is a large difference in asking for something and researching vs statements like this.

Yeager is correct to a certain extent, but having gross misinterpretations and implementations of weapons systems and their ability to perform far beyond the capabilities both historically and realistically is a travesty.  It does nothing but take away from the "sim" aspect and point it towards a X-Box game.  I'd like to believe that HTC would rather have a more fine tuned following bent on enjoying a realistic sim vs a hoarde or kids/summer game players looking for a quick game rush for the summer.

I hope, I sincerely hope that HTC is able to grasp historical fact and get it implemented into the IL-2, the wirblewind, and the other uber-vehicles in the game.

This is pure and simple an attack on HTC.

So let me point out one example, people claim that each gun fires at a different rate, anyone ever see any documentation in any way of how much they vary? Now I am sure they do fire at a slightly different rate, but also some planes would fire at the same rate. So with no data what so ever why is choosing the same fire rate any better than choosing random fire rates with no idea of how much to vary the rate?

If we did randomize the rates, what would be the result? Quite frankly hardly any.

HiTech

[Rich46yo]

I should hope anyone who flys fighters kills more IL2s then vica-versa. My comments werent necessarily pointed at you anyways.

As to the IL2 whinefest? Look, every week we are getting it in some form or another. Lately posters have been camo'ing them in a skin of their own making. That and they are a target for selective realism because somebodys Low Riding Tiger got shot down during their camp out. Its all starting to get real old.

I'll add that cause of it I have removed my self imposed exile from TT and GV base vs GV base tank fights. The slaughter began last night.

Realism indeed.

Hello Rich,

First of all much respect Sir.  Second of all, this was never a whine nor an attempt to fit the game to my way of play.  This whole thread was born out of actual research on a subject that was interesting to me.  Further, I kill way more Il-2's than Il-2's killing me.  The nuggets about the unsyched guns was merely a bit of info I came across and decided to share with the community and Hitech.  Let Hitech do with it as they please, I am absolutely cool either way.  I would do the same with any plane or vehicle if I found new information that may apply to it's modeling. 

What is really interesting is how closely tied the Wirbelwind and the IL-2 are in peoples minds.  Kind of like they are the poison/antidote for each other.

 

Way

[waystin2]

wastin2 Notice I did not jump on your posts. There is a large difference in asking for something and researching vs statements like this.

Roger.
 

[waystin2]

Since HTC does listen, here is a gratuitous bump.

[shreck]

I should hope anyone who flys fighters kills more IL2s then vica-versa. My comments werent necessarily pointed at you anyways.

As to the IL2 whinefest? Look, every week we are getting it in some form or another. Lately posters have been camo'ing them in a skin of their own making. That and they are a target for selective realism because somebodys Low Riding Tiger got shot down during their camp out. Its all starting to get real old.

I'll add that cause of it I have removed my self imposed exile from TT and GV base vs GV base tank fights. The slaughter began last night.

Realism indeed.

  Disable F3 view, it is for tards     nuff said 

[Rich46yo]

You guys think resurrecting old threads, old posts, and general sniveling and whining is going to get you somewheres?

I'd say your ship has sailed.

Shreck how old are you? Seriously? You babble nonsense like a pooh-butt.

   Disable F3 view, it is for tards       nuff said 

gaaa-gaaa-gaaa-gaaaa. Schreck go gaaa-gaaa.

[SmokinLoon]

My point is that if a cross section is made of how weapons are used in other aircraft and vehicles in the AH sim, they are far more realistic than the two most abused weapons systems in the game.  The wirby and the IL-2 are far more capable than they were in WWII.  No, I wasnt there, but I can say that the wirby is magazine fed, I can say that the IL-2 with dual 37mm cannons should recoil at minimum like a single 37mm on the M8.  With the latest update, both the wirby and the osty were "nerfed" slightly in their traverse rate.  I cant comment directly on how accurate the traverse rate is but I'm sure someone else can dig up sources as to jsut how quick they were.   

My comments were not a direct attack on HTC.  Yes, I'm a bit perplexed as to how some of the standards (or lack of) are applied, the list is long but like so many topics have shown they go nowhere so why even bring them up anymore.

... and as for those of us who bring this stuff up "because it fits our style of play more", what a knee jerk reaction that has come to be.  That couldnt be any more further than the truth, at least in my case.   

wastin2 Notice I did not jump on your posts. There is a large difference in asking for something and researching vs statements like this.

This is pure and simple an attack on HTC.

So let me point out one example, people claim that each gun fires at a different rate, anyone ever see any documentation in any way of how much they vary? Now I am sure they do fire at a slightly different rate, but also some planes would fire at the same rate. So with no data what so ever why is choosing the same fire rate any better than choosing random fire rates with no idea of how much to vary the rate?

If we did randomize the rates, what would be the result? Quite frankly hardly any.

HiTech

I

[shreck]

You guys think resurrecting old threads, old posts, and general sniveling and whining is going to get you somewheres?

I'd say your ship has sailed. (Image removed from quote.)

Shreck how old are you? Seriously? You babble nonsense like a pooh-butt.
 gaaa-gaaa-gaaa-gaaaa. Schreck go gaaa-gaaa.

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