Ok, explain this...

[BnZs]

From what flying I've done in light planes, I would say that other airplanes are not that hard to see and identify at long ranges...ONCE you find them. The problem is that there is just soooooooo much sky to cover. How to simulate that effect on a 22" screen will always be problematic.

[Charge]

Painted white or other eye friendly colours civilian a/c really are easy to see once you find them. But what if they would be painted green/gray/brown and you would be trying to see them against ground.

From what I have read usually the only indication of a distant low flying plane was a sudden glimmer of sun's reflection from some surface. And matte paint does not prevent that, from long ranges all paint jobs reflect nearly the same.

-C+

[moot]

I do admit the icons are a bit much...If they were off on ALL sides you would have to take a careful look and a close pass at the plane in order to identify it, this would also include more wingman tactics. I'd spend a bit of time in an arena with no icons for sure.

How about an icon system where you have to look at a vehicle for the icon to fade in, and after a certain amount of time without looking at it, the icon fades out?

[chris3]

moin

here is something diverent. a story from the ruhrkessel.
...Der Gegner wich fluchtartig zurück.Die Höhe wurde erreicht,und als Otto Carius einen US-Panzer sichtete,der in wilder Flucht hinter einem Haus verschwand und sich dahinter sicher wähnte,ließ er das Haus anrichten und mit Verzögerung schießen.Bereits nach dem zweiten Schuß wurde die ungeheuere Durchschlagskraft der 12,8-cm-Kanone unter Beweis gestellt,denn der US-Panzer brannte vollständig aus....

i try to translate...
The enemy stepped back hastily. The height was reached, and when Otto Carius sighted an US tank which disappeared in wild escape behind a house and looked sure behind it, he tells his gunner to arrange the house and shoot with delay. Already after the second shot the immense penetrating power of the 12.8-cm cannon was proved, because the US tank burnt out completely......

cu chris3

[Ghosth]

A yellow crop duster can easily be seen 2 miles out as being yellow, a plane, and  if its biplane or single wing. Probably could tell if its a low wing, or high wing cabin type.

Something in camo, that slips along not doing big banked turns, could easily be within 1/4 mile before you could track it due to engine noise. And that's assuming your standing on the ground. It would be a lot tougher in a plane.

Until we have systems that can show us our full peripheral range of movement detection (some 160-170 degrees in most people) Icons will remain a vital necessity.

However, that is not to say that a new icon option would not be worth exploring.

Consider a new arena, where the only thing an icon shows is country. So you have a very small bishop, knight, or rook icon.
No distance, no name, no plane type. Icons show at 3k (same icon setting as current FSO) and if your not looking in the right direction you won't see it. No big neon sign saying "here I come".

The problem is, even if we had this arena, and this setup. What is it going to do to gameplay?

You'd see a lot more cherry picks, a lot more hording (at the least wingman tactics) more HO attacks.
We would probably all be finding WWII silhouette images to study so we would have a better chance of figuring out what we were up against.

Winning would be less about ACM, and flying, and more about approaching unknown bogeys.
Then when that bogey that you stalked for 2 sectors gets killed by some 2 weeker who cares less. Whats going to happen?

Do you see how any of this, however interesting it may be, is good for gameplay as we know it?
Cause frankly I can't see how it will fly.

[Oldman731]

Consider a new arena, where the only thing an icon shows is country. So you have a very small bishop, knight, or rook icon.
No distance, no name, no plane type. Icons show at 3k (same icon setting as current FSO) and if your not looking in the right direction you won't see it. No big neon sign saying "here I come".

I like that idea.  I like it a lot.

You fix it up, Ghosth, we'll try it in AvA!

- oldman

[BnZs]

Painted white or other eye friendly colours civilian a/c really are easy to see once you find them. But what if they would be painted green/gray/brown and you would be trying to see them against ground.

Camouflage really requires the object be close to something to break up its outline to work well. Perhaps it will work well NOE, but even a rather dull airplane below and a few thousand feet from the background the shape can be made out because of the, don't know the word here, "three dimensionality". It can be compared to a green lizard on a pool table....you might miss him at a glance, but if you look directly at him or he moves, you can make him out easily.

As far as gameplay goes, I may get flamed for this, but guys, I can't quite see the good of making other airplanes harder to see. I think most of us are more  interested in the 20% of the time when a maneuvering fight *did* develop.