New engine cooling scheme

[Stoney]

We're saying the physics ought to behave differently

While I'm typically one who argues for more fidelity with real life, there's a problem with this issue in game, in my opinion.  This is a very, very complicated facet of engine operation, and I would guess, would be very difficult to model with any sort of fidelity that could be considered credible.  There are a ton of issues here.  Low powered, rapid decents cause shock cooling which punishes cylinders.  High powered, low-speed situations like Military Power climbs and stall fights, that would rapidly overheat the engine in real life, even without WEP settings.  Also, the temperature lapse rate would have to be figured in to the equation, so that at higher altitudes, the air is "cooler".  Its kind of like saying you should throw less oil by pulling power after your engine is damaged. 

Perhaps HTC will say if its easy to implement or not, but it looks like a fairly daunting task to me.

[EDIT] Most of us make fun of the way IL-2 treats this issue, just saying.

[Hazard69]

WEP in AH has always been just as it is now.  There was never a time when you could run it to destruction, at least not since before v1.00.

Also, not all aircraft used additives for WEP.  Spitfires and Mustangs for example.

Hmm  , I swear I remember having broken engines on too much wep. I'll have to try and remember if and when that was though now....

[moot]

That makes sense Stoney, thanks.

[Bino]

I agree with you.  Boy do I ever agree with you...but here's the deal: so long as there's any advantage to be gained by doing something extra, it won't fly with HTC.  This position has been made very clear in many of hitech's posts.

That's too bad, IMHO, and a valid reason to contest this computer game's claim to be a "simulation".

I'm all for "more real", in whatever aspect is under discussion: flight model, damage model, gunnery model, plane set, etc.  I suppose that puts me in the minority.  I can live with that, albeit wistfully.   

[Strip]

Dont believe simulation is in HTC vocabulary.....

HTC himself describes this as a game.

[33Vortex]

Simulation or not? It depends where you come from, line training or Blazin' Angels on Playstation.

Just a matter of perspective and how you percieve it. I think this is the best online WW2 air combat sim available, period. That's enough for me. I would love to see as much realism as possible into this game but there are all sorts of practicality, economical and playability issues preventing this from happening. We could have a state of the art game if everyone were willing to pay $150 instead of the $15 a month but somehow I doubt we'd have the same numbers of players logging on every night if that was the montly fee.

HTC has to strike a balance between playability for new customers/players, realism, system specs, graphics (eye candy) and the monthly subscription fee and it is actually a rather delicate act.

However, I'm sure there are hundreds of potential players out there on the global market if just HTC tried to reach out.

[Ruah]

HTC has to strike a balance between playability for new customers/players, realism, system specs, graphics (eye candy) and the monthly subscription fee and it is actually a rather delicate act.

However, I'm sure there are hundreds of potential players out there on the global market if just HTC tried to reach out.

Agreed.  I have been playing another game for close to 5 years called 'eve' and I remember logging in to find less then 5000 players online - today its grown to a much larger game.  If HTC were smart, developed their base community, took in innovation and spread the game over many markets (multi-language support <I don't see a lot of Russians on, which is a huge internet gaming market, or the Germans> for example) and promoted it well, then I am certain it would catch on. 

I know I am gonna be around for awhile and I hope to see this game grow like I have watched eve grow over the years.  (but 10 years in the biz for HTC means marketing needs a kick in the bellybutton IMO)

[Motherland]

A WWII flight sim is a bit more of a niche market than an MMORPG. Aces High will never grow that large.

[Swatch]

That may be, but his comment on the language barrier is a good point.

[Anaxogoras]

Let me yield the floor after this little addendum.  My contention that HT would not like this idea for the same reasons he doesn't like my requests for complex engine management were ill conceived and spurious.  I apologize.  Can we have this bit of realism, then?  I think it's a marvelous idea.  With widewing and moot speaking in favor of it...please?

[moot]

Why apologize.. You saw something as right and argued as such. 

[33Vortex]

The language issue is a very good point. Translation is relatively easy and doesn't involve a lot of coding, the drawback being that it's time consuming. I'm convinced it would be worth the effort though. If HTC made a move to set up a game server (like 1 MA) in Europe, release versions in German and Russian languages and put out ads on a few select places to reach the right people, I can see this game grow beyond what most of us in here could imagine.

It will never be as large as a vanilla MMOG but I definatly think they could at a minimum double their customer base if they made said investments.


More realistic engine cooling? YES PLEASE!

[Stoney]

Let me yield the floor after this little addendum.  My contention that HT would not like this idea for the same reasons he doesn't like my requests for complex engine management were ill conceived and spurious.  I apologize.  Can we have this bit of realism, then?  I think it's a marvelous idea.  With widewing and moot speaking in favor of it...please?

I don't know that this is a management issue.  WW's quote that Moot initially posted doesn't necessarily involve any control manipulation other than a power change, which is already in the game.  Again, I'd say the problem is modelling.  How do you model the different cooling rates?  Would all aircraft cool at the same rate, or would you make different rates depending on cooling inlet area?  Could this be exploited with a P-51, for example, that could practically maintain full time WEP by manipulating the cooling rates?  Finally, as I said before, cooling is a very complex subject, and I don't know that there would be a "simple" method with which to expand its characteristics in-game without it becoming somewhat "gamey".  I could be wrong. 

[Anaxogoras]

I read this as a guideline for things to consider in implementation, not as an argument that what we have now is better than WW's idea being implemented imperfectly.  Correct?

[Stoney]

Well, I was making mention of characteristics with this issue that may prevent HTC from being willing to entertain it.  I'm usually all about more fidelity with real life.  If there's a way to include this and make it as credible as the fidelity of the flight model, I'm for it.  But, I just don't see how the complexity of the issue would fit into a "simple" modification within the game.  I would kind of approach this with a Hypocratic oath type of attitude--don't make it any worse (unrealistic, gamey, insert your qualifier here) if you change it.