Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[Karnak]

He wants the Spit16 to have a perk price of 3-5 HiTech.

But he can't explain why other than saying it is too good as demonstrated by his cherry picked evidence.

[Motherland]

He wants the Spit16 to have a perk price of 3-5 HiTech.

I think he means, what's his end game. It's obvious that he wants it perked 5 points or whatever, but what does he hope to achieve by perking it.

[BnZs]

I am out of here, you can not even state the goal of what you are trying to accomplish. (other than to get rid of the spit 16) Have fun talking to yourself, because if you can not even state what your real goal is, I can not begin to discuss the pro's and cons with you.

Goal? I think MA gameplay would be better and fundamentally more fair if no fighter enjoyed virtually every a2a advantage over numerous other fighter types under typical MA conditions. I think the SpitXVI deserves a perk price because of its combination of speed, turn, and E-building advantages over numerous types, and its lack of a serious weakness to mitigate these factors. Conversely, I do not believe in a perking principle that could be applied to fighters that are exceedingly popular when said airplanes are not inherently advantaged compared to rest of the set. I can not make it any clearer than this.

It is not a "SpitXVI" or an "La7" specific issue...if a machine with the same attributes had a White star, Black cross, or Rising sun painted on the wing, it would not change my mind. Clearly, if I was acting from some sort of bizarre jingoism about obsolete fighters from a war that ended over 60 years ago, I would want what is generally considered the best aircraft, the U.S.A's own F4U-4, to be unperked.

[Kazaa]

lol, even HiTech said screw it!

[BnZs]

They would unbalance gameplay. Which is what the perk system is about. Pragmatic over principle.

Okay, where is the problem here Moot? Let us say lots of experienced sticks are flying "X" ride and getting tons of kills in it. But "X" isn't inherently more effective than many other rides. So, you would see value in perking "X" for no other reason than to force some of these skilled sticks out into equally effective rides (or perhaps even some more effective rides)? I can not see what this achieves, nor does a large number of vets concentrated in "X" moderately effective ride effect the viability of other ride choices compared to the situation that would exist if they were spread out into a number of different but equally effective fighter types.

[grizz441]

BnZ you would make a great politician.

[BnZs]

BnZ you would make a great politician.

No, I would not, because I do not adopt or reject ideas based upon their popularity.

[grizz441]

No, I would not, because I do not adopt or reject ideas based upon their popularity.

But you ignore facts like the point I made that a plane has to be Popular AND Dominate (High K/D over the norm)

You simply ignore facts and don't address the points being counter argued.  I expect a response that doesn't even take into account this point.

[moot]

Okay, where is the problem here Moot? Let us say lots of experienced sticks are flying "X" ride and getting tons of kills in it. But "X" isn't inherently more effective than many other rides. So, you would see value in perking "X" for no other reason than to force some of these skilled sticks out into equally effective rides (or perhaps even some more effective rides)? I can not see what this achieves, nor does a large number of vets concentrated in "X" moderately effective ride effect the viability of other ride choices compared to the situation that would exist if they were spread out into a number of different but equally effective fighter types.

Perking is just a way to throttle excessively unbalancing models.  The goal is to have a fair and varied enough variant population.  So yes, if say 50% of the players were clones of our present top 5%, whacking the other 50% who were todays bottom 5%, in one or two planes very capable but difficult to fly at 9/10ths, those planes would get perked. 

[BnZs]

Perking is just a way to throttle excessively unbalancing models.  The goal is to have a fair and varied enough variant population. 

It would seem the goal is to have a balanced population in raw numbers, "fairness" in terms of balanced performance does not seem to be goal. Which, if you like it that way, bully for you.

[Cajunn]

I do understand BnZ's point and I do understand his position on the spit 16, I fly the 16 quite a bit and I'm just an average virtual pilot. But if I would fly something like the P-51 it would take me almost a month to get the kills I get in a 16 in say 1 or 2 weeks. I think the numbers don't show the potential of the plane because most of the players flying it or probably from Average and down. If you had the players from average and up (which most won't ) flying it 80% of the time you would see a whole lot of whining on the BBS about the spit 16. And then I think you would see the true numbers start to show......

But I really hope those top guys stay out of it, because I would just bail every time I would see one coming ...

[BnZs]

But you ignore facts like the point I made that a plane has to be Popular AND Dominate (High K/D over the norm)

Unless that plane is the SpitXIV...

Honestly, my problems with this standard are 1. It hasn't really been tested for any of the perked planes except for the F4U-1C several years ago. 2. I think that if everything were unperked, and every noob was given equal access to them, several perk planes might not make the kind of k/d "benchmarks" people are setting for perkage. 3. It *STILL* leaves open a possibility that a player-favored type could be perked while a type of approximately equal capability would not be, which seems terribly arbitrary.

[Karnak]

Unless that plane is the SpitXIV...

I pounded my head against that wall for a long time and at this point have given up getting it unperked.  Instead I advocate it being improved to +21lbs boost on 150 octane fuel to justify it being a perk plane.  The price could be adjusted as needed.

[SkyRock]

the spixteen is too easily beaten to be perked....seriously....now, if you went to a furball and saw 85% of all the players there were in a spixteen....then.... but you dont see that, because the spixteen is too slow for some people....I will take one up for base defense, but dont want to be in one when doras and ponies are around because you cant catch them....not hard to understand if you've flown them enough....they just arent worth a perk....I garuntee if you put a perk of 5 on them.....they would have cobwebs on them in the hangar within a month....and you'd rarely...and I mean rarely... ever see one.

[moot]

BNZ - the 16 doesn't upset the balance at all.