Waste of an Opportunity

[Saxman]

VMF-251 was patrolling 13.7 sector with 7 109G-2s at 25,000ft when we received an alert from a scout of multiple P-38s and B-24s headed S through the sector north of our position, at 30,000ft. We scrambled to grab altitude and turned north to intercept.

About ten minutes later we sighted bogies to our Northeast. A formation of P-38s then passed across our flight path at our 1 o'clock, headed slightly perpendicular and about 2000ft above us. I ordered the squadron to max power WEP, but the 38s passed over with no sign of having seen us. We turned in to follow them at a range of ~3500yds. For a good 5 minutes we slowly began to close, and STILL the P-38s showed no sign of having seen us. Not until we had closed to within 1500yds of the trailing P-38s did the formation respond, turning in a wide arc to engage us from our high Right 4.

Man, what I wouldn't have given to have a squadron worth of F4U-4s in that situation: Right in the blind spot, no response by the enemy for five minutes! If we only had a little more speed we could have taken down the entire top cover before anyone knew what hit them.

[Big Rat]

I think I'd take a squad of -4's for any scenario at any time . 

 
BigRat

[theTBone]

First of all I was in a p-38, I believe I was the highest a/c in the vicinity when we were engaged over the city, I was at 29k.  Secondly, it's important to note that the allies slowly achieved air supremacy during WWII due to many factors.  To include: better a/c, better training, and a superior understanding of a/c capabilities.  I've accepted this and therefore when I'm flying for the axis, against an offensive allied force, I normally expect the allies to have an advantage (usually due to the mission design keeping the allied a/c well inside their performance envelope).  Yes it's a bummer, I know this.  However, people have to remember who won the war, and also that this is to be a repeat of a historic engagement.  As long as the design of the campaigns remains this way I recommend that squads tasked in this manner, fight their butts off in a attempt to change the historical outcomes.  I'd personally like to thank the FW-190's and BF-110's that engaged me last night put up a great fight, testing both my skill and my nerves.  I'd also like to make a shout out to "TracerX"...watching your horizontal stabilizer fall off shortly before your FW-190 cartwheeled only meters from my canopy was one of the most invigorating moments I've experienced on Aces High.  I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, I look forward to flying with, or against him in the near future.

<S>

theTBone

[Saxman]

First of all I was in a p-38, I believe I was the highest a/c in the vicinity when we were engaged over the city, I was at 29k.  Secondly, it's important to note that the allies slowly achieved air supremacy during WWII due to many factors.  To include: better a/c, better training, and a superior understanding of a/c capabilities.  I've accepted this and therefore when I'm flying for the axis, against an offensive allied force, I normally expect the allies to have an advantage (usually due to the mission design keeping the allied a/c well inside their performance envelope).  Yes it's a bummer, I know this.  However, people have to remember who won the war, and also that this is to be a repeat of a historic engagement.  As long as the design of the campaigns remains this way I recommend that squads tasked in this manner, fight their butts off in a attempt to change the historical outcomes.  I'd personally like to thank the FW-190's and BF-110's that engaged me last night put up a great fight, testing both my skill and my nerves.  I'd also like to make a shout out to "TracerX"...watching your horizontal stabilizer fall off shortly before your FW-190 cartwheeled only meters from my canopy was one of the most invigorating moments I've experienced on Aces High.  I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, I look forward to flying with, or against him in the near future.

<S>

theTBone

You're in the wrong thread, there.

Rat,

No doubt. Come to think of it, I wonder why there weren't F4U-4s or F4U-1Cs in the Okinawa FSO. Both saw action there.

[Motherland]

Sounds like fun. What happened after you engaged?
Oh... and I hadn't realized there were G-2's in this scenario. It's '44, isn't it?

To include: better a/c, better training, and a superior understanding of a/c capabilities.  I've accepted this and therefore when I'm flying for the axis, against an offensive allied force, I normally expect the allies to have an advantage (usually due to the mission design keeping the allied a/c well inside their performance envelope).  Yes it's a bummer, I know this.  However, people have to remember who won the war, and also that this is to be a repeat of a historic engagement.  As long as the design of the campaigns remains this way I recommend that squads tasked in this manner, fight their butts off in a attempt to change the historical outcomes.

You're missing the most important factor; vast numerical superiority. Really the other factors were only supplementary, and really stemmed out of the aforementioned in the first place. By mid '44, the Luftwaffe could send up 250 interceptors, on a good day; during the same time period, bombing raids into Germany often consisted of over 1000 bombers and well over 500 fighter escorts. The numbers in these FSOs are usually very... uhh... unrealistic in late war scenarios, to make gameplay not extremely frustrating for those who want to fly Axis, and boring for those who want to fly Allies.
I found it kind of funny when people were complaining about numbers last night considering this.

[MjTalon]

Sounds like fun. What happened after you engaged?
Oh... and I hadn't realized there were G-2's in this scenario. It's '44, isn't it?
You're missing the most important factor; vast numerical superiority. Really the other factors were only supplementary, and really stemmed out of the aforementioned in the first place. By mid '44, the Luftwaffe could send up 250 interceptors, on a good day; during the same time period, bombing raids into Germany often consisted of over 1000 bombers and well over 500 fighter escorts. The numbers in these FSOs are usually very... uhh... unrealistic in late war scenarios, to make gameplay not extremely frustrating for those who want to fly Axis, and boring for those who want to fly Allies.
I found it kind of funny when people were complaining about numbers last night considering this.

Exactly, some people need to do some research on the 8th AF raids vs Luftwaffe air strength in '44.

[Motherland]

I think it would be interesting to have a write-up with a bit more realistic numbers (maybe 2:1 or 3:1) where the Luftwaffe goal is to destroy a certain percentage of bombers, like 15%-25%/frame (Allies still have to hit targets of course) to 'break' the Allied airforce, as this was the goal of the Luftwaffe at the time.

[Fencer51]

Overall numbers mean little. 1000 bombers, 500 fighters.. etc..

Its the actions which occured on specific combat boxes and specific sections of the escorts.  Not every fighter group converged when the "250" german fighters were engaging. 

The Germans could and did achieve numerical superiority locally against specific formations of bombers and their escorts.  They would have been fools to not do so.

[Saxman]

TO GET BACK ON TOPIC (Tbone was in the wrong thread)...

Motherland,

We were the first squadron defending that objective to actually make contact with the enemy, except for the scout from one of the other squads that we were responding to. There were about 7 P-38s in the group we were stalking, plus the bomber formation, and about another 10+ P-38s in close escort around the bombers. After the P-38s we were sneaking up on realized we were there my flight (Red) engaged them, while the second flight (Blue, three planes) under the squad XO made a run on the bombers. They splashed four of the B-24s. Two of Blue Flight had to bail out.

Red Flight ended up in a brawl with most of the P-38s we'd been stalking and eventually pulled them down to low altitude. My wingman and I both shot down two. Drazz claimed one as well. His wingman (Herder) got separated and was largely out of the fight. aJoust, (survivor of Blue Flight) joined us in the furball and took out another P-38.

Drazz took a radiator hit during the fight and ditched after his engine died (I shot down the last P-38 after he tried to pick him off). The rest of us returned to 77 to rearm, where Herder wrecked on landing for a ditch.

Not too bad, really. Heavily outnumbered in not the best position, and only REALLY lost two (excluding the ditches) and claimed ten scalps.

[Motherland]

Motherland,

We were the first squadron defending that objective to actually make contact with the enemy, except for the scout from one of the other squads that we were responding to. There were about 7 P-38s in the group we were stalking, plus the bomber formation, and about another 10+ P-38s in close escort around the bombers. After the P-38s we were sneaking up on realized we were there my flight (Red) engaged them, while the second flight (Blue, three planes) under the squad XO made a run on the bombers. They splashed four of the B-24s. Two of Blue Flight had to bail out.

Red Flight ended up in a brawl with most of the P-38s we'd been stalking and eventually pulled them down to low altitude. My wingman and I both shot down two. Drazz claimed one as well. His wingman (Herder) got separated and was largely out of the fight. aJoust, (survivor of Blue Flight) joined us in the furball and took out another P-38.

Drazz took a radiator hit during the fight and ditched after his engine died (I shot down the last P-38 after he tried to pick him off). The rest of us returned to 77 to rearm, where Herder wrecked on landing for a ditch.

Not too bad, really. Heavily outnumbered in not the best position, and only REALLY lost two (excluding the ditches) and claimed ten scalps.

Good stuff!