Author Topic: Favorite 109 ... (Read 1192 times)

Chain · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2000, 03:43:00 AM »

Bf-109 G-2 !

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Chain
Aki Holopainen
aki.holopainen@quicknet.inet.fi
*Überfinns Perkeleet & The Flying Finns*

Vermillion · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2000, 11:34:00 AM »

Ok Janneh

now repost your numbers, but include sorties flown, # of kills, and # of deaths.

I bet that the G2 has a good ratio, but a low number of sorties/use

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

Pongo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2000, 01:42:00 PM »

My favorite?
Probably the g2 although I wish it had german markings. I understand and appreciate the recognition of the Finish accomplishments with the AC but I would like to see one of the more exotic LW paint jobs.
Maybe if the fins had painted them in a more interesting way.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

Rocket · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2000, 02:22:00 PM »

Any that get slow enough and steady enough to be dead

Rocket

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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de

janneh · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2000, 03:09:00 AM »

Ok verm here they are (only kills / deaths and K/D's)

F-4 : 460 kills / 605 killed = 0.76
G-2 : 670 kills / 577 killed = 1.16
G-6 :1212 kills /1229 killed = 0.98
G-10:2059 kills /2295 killed = 0.89

umm, how do I get number of sorties flown ?

Strange thing is that ANY plane vs ANY plane has 1.0 K/D, now that's pretty good ??? =)

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.

Dinger · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2000, 06:44:00 AM »

Yeah, there's something horribly wrong with the 109G10 at least at above 20k, that's come forward in the last version or two -- you can't get enough trim authority to hold it level. This also means the durn thing handles like a pig -- you've got to fight to hold it level, and just can't get enough control to line up anything. Kinda reminds me of my pop's 1958 Ford Pickup with shot tires/suspension/axles that threatens to spin out and roll over 50 mph.
It used to be a nice ride to cruise at high alt and whack bombers; now you're better off flying anything else.

Vermillion · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2000, 02:44:00 PM »

Thanks Janneh

Like I thought, those stats indicate to me at least, that yes while the G2 has a the best kill/death raio, its also the least flown or second least flown of all the 109's.

Which tells me it is benefiting quite a bit from "experten" pilots. Remember back about 4 or 5 versions ago, the La5 was experiencing the same thing.

You guys are correct about the trim problems in the G10. Both of the F4U series suffers from a similar problem (but not as bad).

I hope to see them both get fixed in the near future.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

janneh · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2000, 10:56:00 AM »

Some questions,
as shown here, 109 had 2 cooling systems, which were able to disconnect from each other by pilot. This should be modelled when talking about cooling leaks ?

Then other question, I've read much about leading edge slats (sp?), is this one of them or what is it ?

Thx !

ps. Pongo, You really have something against us finns or Von Rosen Cross ?
Jeezz....

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.

[This message has been edited by janneh (edited 02-09-2000).]

Pongo · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2000, 11:59:00 AM »

janneh
Yes those are leading edge slats,
No def nothing against Finns..
Cosmeticaly I prefer the german cross to the finnish one.
Just a paint job thing really. I would love to see some of the very nice G2 paint jobs and I find the Finnish one rather plain.

If for example they had chosen one of the plain hi altitude schemes for the G6 I wouldnt like that either, and for the same reason.
I tried to show that in my post, sorry if it wasn't clear. I will not be starting a get rid of the finish G2 campaign.

Also to restate, I know that the Finnish pilots accompished great things with the Gustav. I am glad that people that have and interest in the Finnish AF in WW2 have a plane that represents that era.. I am glad for the diverisity, but cosmeticaly I wish that I could choose one of the ones from Luftwaffe Fighters in Profile that is all...
I can't think of anything else to say, hope you are not offended by my preference.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

janneh · « **Reply #24 on:** February 09, 2000, 01:30:00 PM »

Pongo, no hard feelings.
I just thought your purposes of those "negative" statements of Finnish markings.
Glad it's clarified now

Although you're wrong about german cross being cosmeticaly better than Finnish swastika

But look at Finnish markings now ! Outch !
What a imagination, piece of art

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.

fats · « **Reply #25 on:** February 09, 2000, 01:38:00 PM »

Janneh,

Messerchmitt Bf 109 F,G & K by Prien & Rodeike says that only ( some, retrofitted at fields ) F-series planes and ( all, built in at factory ) K-4s had the valves for isolating one of the coolers.

//fats

janneh · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2000, 01:46:00 AM »

fats, according to "Lentäjän Näkökulma II", pilot could isolate them from cockpit in G-2 too.
Radiators had hydraulic driven coverplates front and back. Coverplates affected planes top speed as much as 50km/h, depending if they were open or closed.

Interesting facts about engines of G-2s;
Basic engines were DB605A-1's, but some of the planes had "hi alt" DB-605 A-1 equipped with DB 603's more powerfull charger.
109G-1 had GM-1, G-2 was without it.Also finnish G-2's was without MW-50's because of increased wearing of engine and increased weight(100kg), max take off hp 1475 was disabled too.

I really have to buy that 109 book

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.

fats · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2000, 12:44:00 PM »

Janneh,

It's been long time since I read Lentajan Nakokulma II. Did it have a part where they talk about the coolers' automatic flaps that would open/close, something about their effect on climbing speed ( not rate necessarily ). I don't how ever recall it mentioning the cut off valves, but it's more than 2 years since I read it.

//fats

janneh · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2000, 06:06:00 AM »

fats, yes it has talking about "thermostat controlled hydraulic cooler flaps".
G-2 had also manual system for that.
Can't recall any numbers of cooler flaps effect on climbing, but it was quite considerable.
Well, if their affect for speed was 50 km/h (= 31 mph ?), they effected greatly for climbing as well, tho.

When pilot dropped flaps down, also coolers back flaps were downed, I remember I've read something about flaps being somewhat poor on G-2, not sure.

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.

fats · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2000, 07:23:00 AM »

My comment about possibly not increasing clibm rate refers to the recollection I have, that they had to use a more shallow climb angle but with increased speed the rate was roughly equal.

//fats