Author Topic: What model 109?  (Read 2229 times)

Offline Serenity

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2009, 05:00:32 AM »
Exactly how many species of 109 are there.  Give me the list.

From what I can name off of the top of my head...

Bf-109B-1
Bf-109B-2
Bf-109B-3
Bf-109B-4

Bf-109C-1
Bf-109C-2
Bf-109C-3
Bf-109C-4
Bf-109C-5

Bf-109D-1
Bf-109D-2
Bf-109D-3

Bf-109E-1
Bf-109E-2
Bf-109E-3
Bf-109E-4
Bf-109E-5
Bf-109E-6
Bf-109E-7

Bf-109F-1
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109F-3
Bf-109F-4

Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-3
Bf-109G-4
Bf-109G-5
Bf-109G-6
Bf-109G-6A/S
Bf-109G-10
Bf-109G-10A/S
Bf-109G-12
Bf-109G-14
Bf-109G-14A/S

Bf-109H-0

Bf-109T

Those are all of the models I can recall ever having heard of. There are also many Bf-109V models, but I cannot recall which numbers those encompass. I seem to remember reading how certain numbers were attributed to unsuccessful designs and so were skipped. This also doesn't include all field additions (The R- kits) which add cannon, bomb ranks, rockets, etc.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 10:52:03 AM »
Some things to add to the list:

Bf-109B-1
Bf-109B-2
Bf-109B-3
Bf-109B-4

Bf-109C-1
Bf-109C-2
Bf-109C-3
Bf-109C-4
Bf-109C-5

Bf-109D-1
Bf-109D-2
Bf-109D-3

Bf-109E-1
Bf-109E-2
Bf-109E-3
Bf-109E-4 + E4/N
Bf-109E-5
Bf-109E-6
Bf-109E-7

Bf-109F-1
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109F-3
Bf-109F-4 + F-4/Z

Bf 109G-1
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-3
Bf-109G-4
Bf-109G-5 +G5/AS
Bf-109G-6
Bf-109G-6A/S
Bf-109G-10
Bf-109G-10A/S
Bf-109G-12
Bf-109G-14
Bf-109G-14A/S

Bf-109H-0

Bf 109K-4

Bf-109T


Things get really tricky with the Gustav.  Most of the models listed above could have the old rounded v-stab or the taller version, short or long tailwheel, different canopies and head armor, etc.  The total number of species and subspecies is mind boggling, and all these varieties came into existence while the RLM was asking Messerschmitt to simplify and streamline 109 production. :eek:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:54:09 AM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline oakranger

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 02:44:52 PM »
HOLY S*IT!  That is a lot.  I know the "T" modle was used for aircraft carrier.  What is the story with the "H", "C", "B","D"  modle?  Will we evey see any of these on AH?
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Offline Motherland

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 03:36:44 PM »
HOLY S*IT!  That is a lot.  I know the "T" modle was used for aircraft carrier.  What is the story with the "H", "C", "B","D"  modle?  Will we evey see any of these on AH?
H was kind of like the Ta 152H-1 we have in game, meant for high altitude with and extended wingspan. I don't know if a prototype was ever built.
One missing from the list is the A-0, which served during the Spanish Civil War, and the B, C and D saw combat in the SCW as well. The C and D served on through the Blitz of Poland but I believe it was removed from front line service before the Battle of France or soon thereafter.
I doubt we'll see any of them in AH.

Some things to note;
The original powerplant of the 109 series was the Junkers Jumo 210. This was retained until it was replaced with the Daimler Benz DB601 in the E, and from then on all 109s would have Daimler Benz powerplants.
The original armament of the 109 was only the two MG17 7.92 machine guns in the engine cowling. This was doubled in the C with the addition of two more MG17's in the wing. The pair of MG/FF 20mm autocannons in the wings were not introduced until the E-3.

Bf 109C's of I/JG137 in September of 1939


The original armament of the greatly improved Bf 109F series was two MG17s and one MG/FF autocannon. Since the MG/FF sucked it was replaced with the MG151/15 15mm autocannon in the F-2. This was extremely inadequate and even when the MG151/15 was upgraded to an MG151/20 in the F-4 many pilots still wished for a heavier armament. Adolf Galland was tasked with testing a Bf 109F-4 with MG131 machine guns replacing the MG17s, but the guns were badly synchronized and the muzzle flash too great so the idea was shelved.

The Bf 109G-1 introduced the DB 605A engine and a pressurized cockpit, along with a plethora of other changes. The G-2 was essentially the same, minus the systems for the pressurized cockpit. The G-3 and G-4 introduced larger landing gear and a few other minor changes, the G-3 again being pressurized and the G-4 not. This repeated with the G-5 and G-6, both of which were essentially identical to the G-3/4 beside the addition of the MG131 13mm machine gun, the G-5 being pressurized and the G-6 not.
The G-6 was by far the most produced variant of the 109 with over 12,000 being built.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 03:58:03 PM by Motherland »

Offline StokesAk

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2009, 03:40:24 PM »
What is the A/S Stand for?
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Offline Pannono

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2009, 03:57:01 PM »
From what I can name off of the top of my head...
LOL you are a 109 dweeb and forgot one that is in AH :P
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Offline Motherland

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2009, 03:59:59 PM »
What is the A/S Stand for?
Means the aircraft was equipped with the DB 605AS (M) engine, which was optimized for high altitude performance. It's easy to pick out an /AS as they all have a redesigned cowling (also used with the DB605D equipped 109's, G-10 and K-4) which smooths out the MG blisters, as you can see in the OP.
There's no G-8 on that list either, which was a reconnaissance version.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 04:03:22 PM by Motherland »

Offline Motherland

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2009, 04:08:37 PM »
Identified as a 109K-6 in one of the 109 books I have.  Captured and evaluated by the USAAF.
I don't really see how it could be a K-6. The tail wheel is very short and there don't seem to be any bulges or gun barrels attached to the wing indicating the presence of MK 108's.

Offline StokesAk

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2009, 04:09:13 PM »
Means the aircraft was equipped with the DB 605AS (M) engine, which was optimized for high altitude performance. It's easy to pick out an /AS as they all have a redesigned cowling (also used with the DB605D equipped 109's, G-10 and K-4) which smooths out the MG blisters, as you can see in the OP.
There's no G-8 on that list either, which was a reconnaissance version.

Thanks
Strokes

Offline Guppy35

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2009, 06:05:38 PM »
I don't really see how it could be a K-6. The tail wheel is very short and there don't seem to be any bulges or gun barrels attached to the wing indicating the presence of MK 108's.

Not arguing either way :)

Just posting how it was ID'd.  Since it was a captured airframe there must be some record of it somewhere.  It was in the old Heinz Norrowa 109 book where the photo was shown and ID'd.  It's the only other photo I could find of it in my 109 stuff.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2009, 06:07:26 PM »



Things get really tricky with the Gustav.  Most of the models listed above could have the old rounded v-stab or the taller version, short or long tailwheel, different canopies and head armor, etc.  The total number of species and subspecies is mind boggling, and all these varieties came into existence while the RLM was asking Messerschmitt to simplify and streamline 109 production. :eek:

Oh what great temptation to make a comment here about one Gustav is the same as another :)

Kinda like the Spit IXs are all the same  :aok
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Motherland

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2009, 06:10:14 PM »
Oh what great temptation to make a comment here about one Gustav is the same as another :)

Kinda like the Spit IXs are all the same  :aok
I can wrap my head around the G series just fine. But when I was looking through that 'guess the Spitfire thread' I had no clue what was going on. I can tell the difference between like a 5 and a 9 or the Griffon models, how you guys can tell a Spitfire LFX3R IXeer from whatever is beyond me.

Offline oakranger

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2009, 06:38:44 PM »
Are the 109C's a two prop instead a three?
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Offline Motherland

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2009, 06:39:48 PM »
Are the 109C's a two prop instead a three?
Yup, two blades until the DB 601 was introduced.

Offline Serenity

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Re: What model 109?
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2009, 08:25:42 PM »
LOL you are a 109 dweeb and forgot one that is in AH :P

lol. Oops!

As for C/B/D/ and H:

C:

B:

D:

H: