The HO in perspective...

[humble]

I spent a bit of time in the MWA over the weekend, had an excellent fight with AKAK and a few with Cobia. IMO still the best place for overall quality of fights. At the same time its got its moments of minihoardome as well. At one point I was involved with "defending" one of our bases vs a stream of inbounds. I clipped this out of one exchange. I had knocked down a couple of planes and fought an on/off engagement with cobia in the 109E. He would extend as the sides got imbalanced then look to reengage once things died down. He's in almost all 35 minutes of this one and we never did really engage:).

Anyway at the time of this segment, I just about out of wep, missing a piece and being chased by what was a higher 205 and a zeke. I'm not looking to run but I really cant reverse the 205 without giving the zeke a setup. So....
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/LetsJoust.ahf

The entire goal here is to try and kill the bad guys. I cant control what the zeke will do when I reverse. I do know that once I break back I dont have the option of getting cute with the rice rocket. Obviously I need to worry about the 205 1st but I cant get cute with the 205 unless I have some type of angular offset with the zeke.

So....once I skirt the 205 and pick up the zeke I have no issues trading 20mm with him. Now on the 2nd "HO" you'll notice how easy it is for me to avoid his HO attempt and that the combination of events allows me to get them out of sync on the final "merge"...

I'm not encouraging or condoning a "HO" as much as trying to follow up on Moots lead in using real clips to illustrate the realities of the game. Had the zeke reacted better any "HO" was removed and the fight was basically over. By being target fixated he both lessened his advantage and created a scenario where exchanging lead made the most sense to me. At the same time you can see how I avoided his "retaliation" and then got "skinny" on the 205...the combination of those choices allowed me to gain some equality in position. In the end I was able to eeek out a couple W's.

The reality is that a HO is basically a 50/50 coin flip. If you have skill or numbers on your side then avoiding that 50/50 bet is sound tactics. The 1st pass I knew that tactical reality forced my hand, but on both his "HO" attempt and the FQ guns pass by the 205 you'll notice I never squeezed of a round...simple reason is that it made no sense to either accept a coin flip or freeze my nose (angular position).

[toonces3]

The problem with your scenario is that you're actually thinking through the engagement and trying to win.

You're not thinking, "Ah well, I'm going down, I might as well take one with me" or "I'll just HO him and take the 50/50 I'll get the kill".  You're actually thinking through the engagement, making a tactical decision when to take the shot.

99% of the time, the HO'er is just shooting to take that 50/50 shot at getting a notch in the belt.  Sometimes you have to shoot, sometimes you don't.  And sometimes, you shoot because a kill is a kill is a kill, and if you can get two and get home, people will think you're a really good cartoon fighter pilot.

[CAP1]

The problem with your scenario is that you're actually thinking through the engagement and trying to win.

You're not thinking, "Ah well, I'm going down, I might as well take one with me" or "I'll just HO him and take the 50/50 I'll get the kill".  You're actually thinking through the engagement, making a tactical decision when to take the shot.

99% of the time, the HO'er is just shooting to take that 50/50 shot at getting a notch in the belt.  Sometimes you have to shoot, sometimes you don't.  And sometimes, you shoot because a kill is a kill is a kill, and if you can get two and get home, people will think you're a really good cartoon fighter pilot.

the hell with kills. i think i'm a really good crtoon pile-it if i manage to get ruber on the ground in one piece.

[Infidelz]

The end result is that one "dies". I don't really see any difference between i was playing tactically and i was playing to kill the other player. The results are the results. The motivation is just window dressing, or a topic for the forums.

Infidelz.
"Don't ho me bro"

[humble]

Actually no animals, planes, cartoon pilots or squirrels with camera's were killed in the making of that clip...

Without a second clip to provide a point of reference "seeing" a difference relies on an overall understanding of the game and a general understanding of ACM. There is no way I can reverse with the intent to HO the zeke (well and live that is). I can and did reverse with the intent to engage the zeke from a FQ perspective if possible and more importantly to begin to close the bogeys up. The alternative of attempting a running (read overshoot) fight with the 205 simply wasn't practical given the minimal speed differential. The reality that I already had damage made it important that my evasive was truly evasive since another ping in the wrong place would be fatal.

This forced a more "violent" evasive which in turn dictated a straight out dive to regain E. Once I located the zeke and it was clear his intent was to fly right at me I opened up at 1.5 or more....basically its a step aside I'm coming thru type of a HO. With no angular separation any evasive on my part scrubs E, gives the zeke angles and  immediately brings the 205 into play.

My motive is very clear, to use actual in game footage as an educational tool to clarify certain aspects of a misunderstood "topic". Thats probably the 1st time in 6 months I've initiated a HO with any type of premeditation.  Obviously its not "plan A" but it was the best choice in a bad scenario. By putting it in context on film it gives newer players a feel for the realities. It also shows two other "HO" setups and that I could easily avoid the zekes attempt with a minimal evasive and that the 205 clearly got around 1st (a typical whine is I could have shot but didnt)...well the reality is normally that one guy gets around just a bit faster....if I pull into the 205 to square up I die. Instead I accept the reality of his positional advantage adjust accordingly while maintaining my SA on the zeke.

All to often on 200 we hear generic complaints on the topic of "HO's". The reality (from this film) are simple. Sometimes (rarely) its simply the logical thing to do. Regardless it takes two to HO and they are 100% avoidable 100% of the time if you have maintained sufficient SA (not always possible). The 205 didn't do a single thing wrong, he had a front quarter shot generated by my maneuvering. could he have chosen better tactics...certainly. However, that was not a "HO" and wouldn't ever be one unless I continued to fly into his path ignoring that he had already established a positional advantage. IMO 80%+ of the HO whines on 200 are exactly this....

[shreck]

As I've always said, the HO is not the issue! All noobs will do it and most others will do it when out numbered and desperate! It is the HOing from compitent flyers that gets me, and they will HO you in a miriad of situations always using the "Hi angle or front quarter" excuse! When in actuality they see you busy and attack you, you try to turn into them and bang bang---> HO or very lame front quarter, hi deflection whatever!! It truely is only the vet pilots who can make a HO stick more times then not, noobs are spraying and easy to evade, vets are "setting it up"

There are a ton of vets who HO regularly!

Even when I'm being mobbed, I never HO   1st reason is I like to complain about it on 200 and would rather not be a hypocrite   2nd reason is I'm really really bad at it

[humble]

No excuse needed on a FQ shot. If you push a bad situation you die. If you recognize that the other guy got around 1st almost any FQ shot can be minimized if not avoided entirely. The really good pilots...greebo. blukitty etc never get caught on a FQ shot. They are aways 1/2 way into there reverse and leave you shooting at air right before you go to tower. To me the concept of a "lame FW shot" is an excuse for bad ACM...

I had a great fight in the MWA last night with a hurri driver. We both passed on multiple "merge" style HO/FQ shot...but with both took (and missed) multiple cat & mouse FQ shots on a series of rolling scissor type moves and semi vertical cutbacks etc. We both knew the "rules" and respected them but the idiotic idea that your protected from flying stupid is just as bad IMO.