Author Topic: Fix the F4U-1D (warning large imgs) (Read 2947 times)

Fatty · « **Reply #30 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:04:00 PM »

Relax man. The guy likes his plane, he fights for his plane, and instead of coming up with neato catch phrases (like "turbolasers") he actually provides empirical and documented evidence.

I could care less if they drop 20mph off of it, I'd love to strap on those 12" rockets, or the 3rd 1k# bomb.

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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards
"If you have to ask, yes, you are whining."

Hooligan · « **Reply #31 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:16:00 PM »

F4U:

Thanks for the info.

Hooligan

Pyro · « **Reply #32 on:** January 10, 2001, 09:03:00 PM »

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at it and digest it. I still have the performance discrepencies between the game and our charts to dig into, so I'll just go over the whole thing when I get a chance. The interesting thing that jumps out at me is the weight on the -1C being higher than the -1D. In AH it's the opposite because I've never seen a weight on the -1C and just figured the difference using weapon and ammo weights. That wouldn't take into account the installation, additional structural reinforcement, and whatever else they had to do.

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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Citabria · « **Reply #33 on:** January 10, 2001, 09:18:00 PM »

thank god the f4u1d will soon outperform
el cannon de blasto chog

F4UDOA · « **Reply #34 on:** January 10, 2001, 11:04:00 PM »

Pyro,

I have all of the F4U-1/1A/1D performance charts. I will email them to you ASAP. And thanks for taking a look.

Citabria,

Sorry about the sarcasm but I am shooting for accuracy. I really don't care that much about the F4U-1C. I drive the F4U regardless of what ever the "hot" airplane is in AH. But I have a mountain of data that points to better climb/acceleration that what we see here. As far as perk planes I would much rather see the F4U-4 and the F2G(<==would be a wild bellybutton ride not in any other simm) than a F4U-1C that is based on cannon only.

However I do think perking it because of the cannons is a bit silly. Mainly because the bulk of the people will just fly the next uber cannon bird until all cannon birds are perked. This variety theory going around is a dream. There will be no more C202's or La-5's than there are now. Pretty soon we will just be playing laser tag and nobody will get shot down.

Later

Citabria · « **Reply #35 on:** January 10, 2001, 11:32:00 PM »

perk it because its rare. its not a true blue blood mass use f4u pacific corsair. just a historical oddity with only a few 100 built.

it makes the f4u1d redundant and should be a cheap perk.

Duckwing6 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 11, 2001, 04:29:00 AM »

F4UDOA As chairman of the D-Hog-Pilots-of-AH Association i want to thank you for your ongoing effort to get the FM of the F4U as realistic as possible!

Seriously thanks for the digging mate!

<S>

DW6

F4UDOA · « **Reply #37 on:** January 11, 2001, 08:09:00 AM »

Well Ducky Baby,

If more pilots flew the -1D like you it might get perked too. Just goes to show it's the pilot no the plane. It's really stiff's like me that need the better flying A/C.

<S>
F4UDOA

Vermillion · « **Reply #38 on:** January 11, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »

Very interesting information F4UDOA, do you have the pages with the altitude versus performance charts that typically come with these pages? If so, I would be interested in a copy of them.

The data comparison between the -1C and -1D is great, in fact its some hard numbers that I have been looking for, for a long time.

But realistically, after looking at them, the performance difference (-1D vs -1C) is still so slight as too be neglible. In fact with the analog gauges of Aces High, in a blind test between the two, most people would not be able to tell the difference. Its easily within the error range of reading the instruments.

Where did you get these? Con them outta Francis Dean? If so, ask him if he has any solid data on either the P-51H, F4U-4 (on 100 octane fuel) or the F2G. I would love to see it.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 01-11-2001).]

F4UDOA · « **Reply #39 on:** January 11, 2001, 09:45:00 AM »

Verm,

Not Frances Dean this time. It was Wells.
He pointed me to this guy's website. He has the stuff posted for the -1 and -1D.

Here ya go. The chart you want is in there. I was looking for this for a long time.
http://www.geocities.com/slakergmb/id63.htm

I would like that stuff for the F4U-4, P-51H and F2G as well, hehe. Still looking...

[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 01-11-2001).]

Hooligan · « **Reply #40 on:** January 11, 2001, 10:40:00 AM »

Pyro:

I believe I know why the CHog weighs more than the DHog. I believe that the oppressive burden of a guilty conscious is weighing this plane down. Even though it has done nothing wrong, the CHog feels guilty because otherwise rational people have become frothing maniacs due to its mere existence. Poor RAM has developed multiple-personality disorder.

Hooligan

CavemanJ · « **Reply #41 on:** January 11, 2001, 12:55:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Citabria:
perk it because its rare. its not a true blue blood mass use f4u pacific corsair. just a historical oddity with only a few 100 built.

it makes the f4u1d redundant and should be a cheap perk.

This from the guy who likes to play ostdweeb and flatten entire fields with a 37mm gun (of which only 40 were made PERK IT!).

Quote

but im almost sure the AH f4u1d is modelled for combat conditions with pylons and rocket mounts. it wouldnt make sense for it not to be. these items were standard on almost all f4u1d's and rarely removed.

Guess you missed this part of the above diagrams (I had to refresh the page 3-4 times before I got the whole images).

Quote

*COMBAT CONDITION: Two capped pylots aboard; Fuse. drop tank rack aboard. Rocket launchers not aboard. Combat condition plus 8 Mk 5-1 launchers-Vmax/SL 350mph, Vmax 400/19900 (Comb.Power) Combat condition less pylon caps Vmax/SL 351mph, Vmax401/19900 (Comb.Power)
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CLEAN CONDITION: same as Combat Condition except pylons and Fuse. drop tank rack removed Vmax/SL 366mph, Vmax 417/20000 (Combat Power)

Apparently the rocket racks aren't installed when they aren't gonna carry rockets.

Clean condition would be a fighter config I'd imagine

[This message has been edited by CavemanJ (edited 01-11-2001).]

Hooligan · « **Reply #42 on:** January 11, 2001, 01:18:00 PM »

Even with the pylons the real 1Ds and 1Cs climb, accel and turn a bit better than the AH ones (at least better than indicated on AH charts). In clean condition, which F4UDOA says was standard for "fighter missions" they will perform even better.

Hooligan

Tac · « **Reply #43 on:** January 11, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »

F4UDOA... any way I can convince you to find info on the P-38L? I cant figure out how the heck or where the heck ye dig up all this stuff.. but thank you for your efforts! <S>

F4UDOA · « **Reply #44 on:** January 11, 2001, 05:30:00 PM »

Tac,

I was just looking into the P-38L performance in AH compared to what I have. There are two problems that stand out.

1. I don't know what a P-38L with full fuel and ammo weights. I even have the Pilots Manual and I can't tell. I know what the P-38J weights but the L was slightly higher. How much I don't know. I am looking for exact numbers. Once I know that I can compare it to the AH model. I really need to see a break down of fuel, oil ammo, and extra weight from the hydraulics in the L model.

2. None of the flaps on any AH plane work properly at low speed. And the P-38 relies on the fowler type flap more than any other plane to maneuver at low speed, so it is hurt the worst. The F4U, P-51 are the other two that are significantly effected. Just check the 1G stall against the AH model with fullflaps against anyone of these birds. It's really not even close. But the 38 has such poor wingloading without them that it get's hurt the most.