Fw 190D-9 'Dora'

[jmccaul]

I think it's an intresting phenonmen but it isn't a one off as the spit 14 is heavier(higher wingloading) with practically the same aerodynamics but more hp than the spit 9. They were found by british trials to have identical turning circles.
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Tactical Trials Spitfire XIV RB 179

Tactical comparison against the Spitfire IX

Speeds - At all heights the Mk XIV is 30-35 mph faster in level flight. The best performance heights are similar, being just below 15,000 and between 25,000 and 32,000 ft.

Turning Circle - The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Mk XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of the approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Mk XIV.

Rate of Roll - Rate of roll is very much the same.

Conclusions - All-round performance of the Mk XIV is better than the Mk IX at all heights. Its manoeuvrability is as good as a Mik IX. It is easy to fly but should be handled with care when taxying and taking off.

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Intrestingly this is not reflected in warbirds with the spit 14 turning much worse than the 9 which suggests it's a factor not modelled in WB, it will be intresting when we see what happens in AH.  

[LLv34_Snefens]

About armament, I think the outer cannons were omitted to give room for the MW50 tanks, but maybe it was possible to leave out the tanks and install cannons by the airfield engineers. Not sure.

In all D-subtypes provision was made for installation of a 30mm MK108 firing through airscrew though. Not sure if this was ever used either.

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Vänr. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34

[Sundog]

Also, didn't the 190D-9 have a new airfoil, as compared with earlier model 109's?

Also, about the R/C post above, you were talking about the P-39 R/C plane being mushy  and slow to maneuver, correct? Just checking, because everyhting I have read, indicates that the P-39 was quite maneuverable and could handily out turn a zero (But not fight in the vertical with a zero unless it was a diving fight, not a climbing fight due to weight).

In fact, based on what I have read of the Soviets who flew the P-39, you really had to watch out for its spin, especially at the top of a loop (Inverted spin). The engine mounted near the P-39s c.g., and the fact that most didn't have the 37mm cannon, meant the P-39 had low angular inertia (e.g.- could `rotate' quickly) which made it highly maneuverable. Does anyone know if this will ever be modeled in AH? I know HT and Pyro already said the Dora will be modeled. =-)

[wells]

Jochen,  beauty pic...where'd ya get it?

[funked]

Sundog:  D-9 used the wings, empennage, and middle fuselage from the A-8.  The nose was obviously extended for the new engine.  To balance things an extension was added to the fuselage in front of the empennage.

[Jochen]

Ok, so we can conlclude that D-9 can, in theory, indeed outturn A-8's? Sounds pretty good to me.

I don't think we ever get Ta 152 but is there any reason why we should? After all, it was not used in significant numbers altought it made one ace. Dora, on the other hand, is enough capable to deal with other late war planes that really flew in action.

 

Jochen, beauty pic...where'd ya get it?

http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/archiv/index.htm

 

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jochen
Geschwaderkommodore
Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

If you ever get across the sea to England,
Then maybe at the closing of the day
The bars will all be serving German lager
Which means we won the war - hip hip hooray!

[Gramma]

Dora:
wing loading: 481/sq ft
A-8:
wing loading: 491/sq ft
Dora turns better ( very better due hp also ) than A-8. A-4 is the best for this kinda arena.

Wanna see something cool  
   
4 20mm and 1 30m

Gramma
JG 300 Sturmgruppe I

[spinny]

"The most close match to 190D9 is P51D."

Among the presently modeled planes, but the closest match is the -4 Corsair, I think.

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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X

[juzz]

Erm, yeah... nice try, but you already got the -1C.  

[spinny]

I wasn't arguing for the -4s inclusion, I was just pointing out that its performance is closer to the Dora's than the 51D, esp. in rollrate. Not that I would mind seeing it in the game, you understand.

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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X

[Vermillion]

Hell Juzz... you guys been squeaking about the C-Hog so much   I bet Spinny would agree with me that we would happily give up the C-Hog for the -4.   Then we would certainly hear some squeaking about "UberHogs".

Jmccaul, is that the exact wording? I was always told that the "turning time" was the same. Which meant that the XIV could make a turn in the same number of seconds as the
IX. But this meant that the XIV made a larger circle, but at a higher speed. Any other Spit experts around here? I know this has been debated ad nauseum over on AGW.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

[spinny]

Ah, you beat me too it, Verm. And yes, I would most certainly trade the cannon-armed -1C for the Mg armed -4.  

[juzz]

F4U-4 vs P-51D vs Fw190D-9

Speed: 450(440)mph, 424(433)mph, 426(400)mph at 20,000(30,000)ft.
Climbrate: 4770fpm, 3500fpm, 4200fpm at S/L.
Wingloading: 40lbs/sqft, 43lbs/sqft, 49lbs/sqft.
Powerloading: 5.94lbs/hp, 5.95lbs/hp, 5.33lbs/hp
Ceiling: 38500ft, 41900ft, 39500ft.

The F4U-4 appears to be superior to both by a fair margin.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 02-09-2000).]

[Vermillion]

"Superior to both by a fair margin"

Hehehehe thats the point  

Actually though I believe, your speed and climbrates are taken from the 115 Octane Navy test data. (Thanks Wells for straightening me out on this )

Climbrate was something like 3900 fpm, and I forget top speed was, with the normal fuel

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

[juzz]

Probably - I got the F4U-4 data from a .pdf file that was posted on AGW, I think it's the manufacturer's "brochure" for the plane. Using MIL power it's climbrate at S/L is quoted as 2910fpm, top speed 430mph at 32k.