BF-209-II Request

[Lusche]

Why haven't you said Me?  One is an Me209, the other a Bf209.

There was no Bf 209.  The project started as BF 209, but that designation was changed when the Bayerischen Flugzeugwerke AG did become Messerschmitt AG, which happened before the maiden flight. This plane was also called Me 109R for propaganda purposes.
the Me-209 designation was then simply recycled for a different plane, the 209 "II"

[dirtdart]

In mid 1937 Robert Lusser looked for a plane that would seize for Germany the absolute speed record.  The first attempts were made by a modified Bf-109V-13 # D-IPKY.  on 11 Nov 1937 it flew an average of 610.95 kmh, beating the current land plane record holder the Hughes H1.  Messerschmitt wanted more.  The MC 72 held the record at 709 kmh.  The project was internally know as the 1059.  In mid 38 it was renamed the Me-209 (although it was officially known as the Bf-209).  Used a DB601 with surface evaporation cooling. Although they experienced some development issues, on 26 April 1939 the (P1059/Me-209/Bf-209) flew 755 kmh. 

The V4 variant of this airframe was tested for military application, however it proved unsuitable as a fighter.  The plane was given a military paint scheme as a propaganda ploy.  This planes record stood as the official speed record until 16 august 1969 when Daryl Greenamayer attained 771 Kmh in a F8F-2 Bearcat. 

The "New" 209 was using many components of the Me-109 G.  However, after realizing that performance would be similar to the other German airframe it was decided to discontinue the 209 and focus on 262 development (25 May 1943).  The 309 was going to happen, however the bombing attacks on Augsburg on the 25-26 Feb 1944 ended the 309.

All from The History of German Aviation "Willy Messerschmitt Pioneer of Aviation Design" by Ebert/Kaiser/Peters

[Slade]

Thanks for the great feedback.

Correct, my request was for the BF-209-II (not the BF-209).

[Lusche]

Correct, my request was for the BF-209-II (not the BF-209).

There still never was a BF 209-II

[Krusty]

Don't argue the semantics of it. Bf and Me are interchangable, and in fact you'll find many official forms from the war with Me109 on one part of the page and Bf109 on another part of the same page.

It was the same company.


That's not the issue. The issue is the validity of the proposed plane that should be added to AH.

There simply IS NO validity. It's a non entity that never existed aside from 2 prototypes with 2 different engines.

Dumb idea. Leave it at that.

[Lusche]

Don't argue the semantics of it. Bf and Me are interchangable,

This isn't a question of semantics, and it was not the same company. Calling the Me 209-II a Bf  is plain & simple wrong. For the 109 both was used on occasion, because the 109 was a Bf, it was build when the company existed.
The 209-II however was a 1943 plane - 5 years after the the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke became the  Messerschmitt GmbH. The 209-II never was a "Bf".

[Krusty]

Lusche, it is semantics. It's basically going down to the minute detail level to differentiate BF and Messerschmitt. For all intents and purposes the prefixes are interchangable on those early war planes.

And, I said "don't argue the semantics of it" only because that lends justification for the plane request in the first place. However you want to call it, I was trying to say, the suggestion is absurd.

[Lusche]

Lusche, it is semantics. It's basically going down to the minute detail level to differentiate BF and Messerschmitt. For all intents and purposes the prefixes are interchangable on those early war planes.

 

The Me 209-II is no early war plane. The prefix was never used for it.