Author Topic: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.  (Read 8509 times)

Offline RTSigma

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2009, 12:11:23 AM »
I like IL2 for the graphics and the mission creator for my "offline time" from AH2. But recently Oleg released the dev kit and now you can mod IL2 up the wazoo.

Theres a lot to list what you can get for the mods, but check out AAA IL2 mod. Heres a youtube of it:

6DOF Track IR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3iTHt7iWDA

More mods in side-by-side comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj2BJm6X1A8

Sigma of VF-17 JOLLY ROGERS

Offline NaughtyN

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2009, 04:21:14 AM »
Hello Kazaa,

i have played WW2Online for quit some time and also tried IL2..

In my opinion graphics are the strength of IL2. If you need and like eye-candy, IL2 is the way to go. When I tried it, it was hard to find servers with good connections. I actually was not able to really play online because of the instable servers. Also there was a strong tendency in IL2 to extremely exaggerate Russian plane performance, don’t know if that changed yet.

Strength of WW2OL is the immersion of a large military combined arms conflict. I still think, that WW2OL is the best combined arms online simulation available. The airwar is completely different to AH2. I think it is much closer to what the Airwar must have been in WW2. The plane-icon-system in WW2OL helps to create this immersion, all planes just show up as grey icons at long distances and only turn red or green at pretty close distances. But this actually means, good flying skills are not really necessary there and are not regularly pitched against each other. Most kills happen - as in real WW2 - by shooting someone down that never saw you. And there are many other annoying things about the game. Performance of the game engine is generally poor and varies widely. Even high-end PCs are prone to low FPS. The game engine is pretty old and so the graphics are nothing worth mentioning.

FM between all three feels different. Personal preferences will decide. After getting my own pilot license, AH2 is the simulation I play, because for me the FM feels right (with some limitations I can accept i.e. Hammerhead) and the game and server performance is stable and good.

In IL2 I had the weird feeling, that the laws of ingame physics were different for different planes and it was so hard to find any stable servers that online play was not an option.

WW2OL FM for me just feels a little bit to unstable, nervous and “floaty”, although i.e. I can easily perform a correct Hammerhead in there, but the overall poor game engine performance of WW2OL just outweights the advantage of a correct hammerhead once in a while.

Offline Infidelz

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2009, 04:36:39 AM »
............... Most kills happen - as in real WW2 - by shooting someone down that never saw you. And there are many other annoying things about the game....


I had to comment on this as I really feel the main problem with the air war in WWII is they do not support 6 dof and going from one to another is like night and day. 

infidelz

Offline FiLtH

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2009, 04:54:55 AM »
  After AW died I went to WW2OL. I played there for 3 years thru all the mess. AT one point, one sweet brief point, it was both fun, and playable. I left before brigade spawning. I did have some issue with the graphics, mainly how if there was 80 people around you, you may not see the guy 20ft away about to shoot you. Also the bombs didnt impact if up too high. Even with cannon, sometimes it took all your ammo into a plane and he may still not go down. (Actually that was'nt so bad...little randomness to it).

   As far as the flying goes, when it started, it was similar to AH as far as matchups between a spit/hurri and a 109e. You could dogfight and have fun. Then they changed the 109 so it become a total non turner. Felt more like a tempest vs a spit. You had to stay fast. This killed the airwar for me in there. Not sure how it is now.

   The best thing of WW2OL was the terrain. It was pretty. You could set up an 88 at the bend of a river in a little patch of trees, and just looking around it looked like you were in an oil painting. Really nice.


   Couple years ago I checked it out again, but it was way too confusing to figure out so I left.

~AoM~

Offline Kweassa

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[Offering a different view on 1C's IL-2 series]
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2009, 05:43:48 AM »
 Never tried WW2OL, but I've played IL-2 multiplayer sessions side-by-side with AH for quite a long time, and enjoyed both games thoroughly without any bias. Personally I have the utmost respect for both HTC's AH and 1C's IL-2 as being a great WW2 aerial combat simulation game.

 Frankly IL-2 series is not really as bad as most people in this thread say it is. Whatever you can do in AH, you can do most of it in quite the same manner in IL-2, and vice versa. The only really visible/obvious difference in FM is how they handle the torque - in AH the torque effects of individual planes are very prevalent and characteristic, and often powerful enough to quickly flip the plane over by itself even in perfectly normal, level flight conditions, whereas in IL-2 the torque effects are depicted as being much weaker, and very gradual in its effect to a plane in flight. This is what makes the plane feel "generic" in IL-2, which, it is not. The differences between planes are much more subtle than in AH, but it is there.

 Other differences are much more subtle, and yet effects the game at a very fundamental level - which is another big reason why most AH gamers cannot really adapt to IL-2.

 For instance, the ever-famous visual system - the restriction of views in IL-2 was a major let-down even when the very first of its series appeared in the market. Despite having a very successful view system to benchmark in the form of AH, IL-2 chose a primitive restriction where pilot head positioning inside the cockpit was entirely denied. (It was later revealed that this was due to how the cockpit was visually modelled - ie. "facade" type of modelling, rather than the true-3D modelling AH uses, in which the developers had to restrict head movement, or otherwise the optical illusion of having a "3D cockpit" would fall apart at different head angles)

 This directly interprets into a serious limitation in visual information during combat, which results in the combat dynamic of IL-2 being much more conservative and defense oriented (..and to a degree, ironically, 'more realistic' in some cases) , rather than the far-more aggressive combat dynamics allowed in AH: even if it is possible to use the same tactics and pull off the same maneuvers as in AH FM-wise, the limitation in visual info makes it much more difficult to do so. Therefore most usually combat maneuvering in IL-2 tends to revolve around the simple principle of "avoiding being bounced", and "never lettings someone behind your six" - in contrast, many capable veterans in AH rather enjoy those kinds of situations where they'd keep constant track of enemy movement behind them, and use a variety of tactics to overshoot the enemy or turn the tables. In IL-2 it's much much harder to do so, so people would rather stick to the basic combat principles, rather than take the risk.

 Another such example would be the gunnery. The gunnery/DM in IL-2 is perhaps the single most defined system which actually outshines AH, and differences in armament manifest in very different ways than just the raw power of the gun. There are a lot more parts to be damaged in a very different manner than in AH. For instance, I've actually experienced the following event: I've shot at a Spitfire wing with a 109 MK108 30mm cannon at a close range, from a top angle. The shell landed on the broadside of the wing, and then actually went through the wing, and detonated at the other side as it exited from the structure! The Spitfire obivously got a great big hole and a very widely tattered wing surface, but the structure held intact. In AH that would have constituted an instant wing-snap.

 This kind of sophistication really brings out the difference in armament - as in machinegun-class weapons needing a very concentrated shot to really damage an enemy plane, and in most cases the final kill-factor comes from starting a fire or killing the internal engine system causing a great big black smoke, rather than a catastrophical structural failure. While it is certainly possible to snap a wing or blow out the entire rear fuselage with 50cal-armed planes in IL-2, it is much more inlikely to happen than in AH. On the other hand, the cannons do blow out whole pieces from the enemy planes, and most of its kill-factor comes from causing structural failures.

 Another factor which is subtle, but deeply effects the combat, is the lack of ammo counters and icon information. Although it is possible to see exact enemy distances, most multi-player rooms restrict the icon info to the basic faction/plane-type standard, which distance information is usually omitted. Since you have no way of knowing how much ammo you have left in most planes, people tend to veer away from trying long-distance shots in IL-2. Most shooting begins within approximately inside 200m in IL-2, which is about twice as closer than in AH where people usually tend to consider the "400" range marker as the optimal shooting distance. Ofcourse, some very talented pilots do try a long-distance snipe with incredible results, and it is certainly possible as it is possible in AH, however the odds of such things happening in IL-2 are indeed, much more slim than in AH. Therefore the average gunnery difficulty tends to be a bit higher in IL-2 than AH, with the side-effect of that being that you have much more chance of survival even if an enemy planes latches behind you at a very close distance. Therefore, while close-quarters knife-fighting is far less common than in AH, when it does happen it does offer a very interesting fight.

 ...

 Now, all of what I've presented above, results in the fighting styles and tendencies of IL-2 being very, very different from AH. It's basically not so much the FM which brings out the difference between the two games, but rather the difference in the entire environment which encourages the pilot to fly differently. Most AH gamers who try IL-2 for maybe a month or two, never get past that adaptation phase, and in the end just gives up on the game for being garbage - which, it is not. I know that for a fact, because I was the same. I also had a very difficult time adapting to the differences, and tended to think AH was better in every aspect. I never gave the IL-2 fair chance to grow on me - until some of my friends who've never tried AH, started flying in IL-2. So I really didn't have any choice but to fly with them, and after a long time, a lot of the things which I couldn't understand in IL-2, finally started to make sense.

 All in all, IL-2 definately is a worthy competition to AH.

 I'm sure many of the AH enthusiasts would tell a new player to try AH for some time, and not be judgemental about the game with only a month of two of experience. Try to keep an open mind, accept the differences, learn from the more experienced players, and gulp down the pride and be humble about everything until he begins to understand what AH can really offer.

 I can certainly say the same to all the IL-2 bashers on the board. Usually, it is because many of the AH gamers that try IL-2 are already experienced and capable players, that they tend to refuse to accept that they might be just another newbie who needs time to adjust in a new game. Many tend to think being experienced in AH will automatically enable them to show the same level of success when they move to IL-2. Since both games feature the same planes, and same era of aerial combat, once the player gets past that adaptation phase naturally they soar right past the learning curve and become terrific players in IL-2 too. However, there's no way to speed up the adaptation phase, which usually is a very frustrating experince.

 I'm not sayin IL-2 is perfect. I still view more highly of AH. Some aspects of IL-2 are noteworthy, and I'd certainly like to see some of those stuff implemented in AH as well, but other aspects of IL-2 are indeed lacking when compared to AH. The user interface is terrible, view/control systems suck, to much attention to techincal detail actually deterr situational reality in many cases, and etc etc.. But it's certainly not garbage. It is a worthy successor to the line of WW2 combat-simulation packaged games that include AoP, AoE, and EAW.

 IL-2 at leat deserves that much.
 

Offline PanosGR

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2009, 06:18:43 AM »
Could not agree more with the whole description. Its 100% accurate, Well said it Kweassa. 
As it concern my personal feeling in short is that the difference between the two FMs is that in IL2 planes are much more "heavy" and difficult to control them especially in near stall environment while on the other hand in AH most of the aircrafts seems to have lighter controls, more carefree handling and you can perform  maneuvers that exceed by far human body limitations. Just my personal feeling.

Offline Oleg

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2009, 06:34:48 AM »
Look at WW2OL as a ground combat simulator. Air part of this game just as "gamey" as ground part of AH.

I tried WW2OL long ago, though, may be its better now, but i doubt it.
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Offline jdbecks

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2009, 06:39:26 AM »
Kazaa give Battle of Britain 2 a go, its not got any multiplayer yet, but the graphics are fantastic and has a great flight model imho, but AH2 is my fav so far
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Offline Kotari

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2009, 06:40:35 AM »
About IL-2 6DOF:
Kegetys said to me when i asked him, that Oleg (the IL-2 Dude) got a hissy-fit over that "hack" and they agreed not to continue the development.
So, that 6DOF is only found as a old test version and definately not for current versions of IL-2

About WW2OL:
I heard a really fitting one-liner in a Finnish virtualpilots meet how to describe that game.
"Loosely to WW2 era based fantasy roleplaying game"

Give it a test if you will, but it surely don´t beat this game in aircombat.
I played it for a few months a couple years back.
-=Die Rammjäger VIII=-
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Offline uptown

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2009, 07:03:51 AM »
AcesHigh2 is IMO the best WW2 dogfighting game out there by a long shot. I get caught up in the excitement of battle in this game like no other. Playing the games just can't do it for me.

My only reget is the HTC didn't do a NASCAR sim instead. :rock
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2009, 07:12:31 AM »
iL2 the view system and the FM always bugged me. Neither one felt "right" both were anti immersion.

Looked great, had planes that AH didn't, and doesn't have. But just was not fun to fly.


As to WWIIOL, well when it becomes a flight sim let me know. Right now its a sort of combined arms sim with limited flight capabilitys.  Everyone was hoping they'd really make a go of it, but they've screwed the pooch all the way down the line.
Seen nothing yet to show that anything has changed on that front.

Offline Kotari

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2009, 07:46:14 AM »
Ghosth, to my opinion they are messing it more while they try to develop it.
ie. the new "rudder fix" which was basicly dampening down the response, so its now lagging and slow moving as it would be tarred.
Also, heard from the new 1.30 patch that people got alot of problems with game performance and stability.
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Offline Charge

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2009, 08:41:09 AM »
I started playing AH at the end on 2001 and WW2OL at the beginning of 2002 and I still have both accounts open. After flying enough for a day in AH I go to WW2OL and grab a rifle and do other stuff. The ground war aspect in WW2OL is very good and immersive -but I don't fly there anymore.  ;)

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Offline BnZs

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Re: [Offering a different view on 1C's IL-2 series]
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2009, 09:32:24 AM »
Kweassa:
I strongly suspect a lot of what goes on in Il2 is there because the makers are trying to simulate "the conditions" rather than the "equipment" and because much of the fan base thinks harder=more realistic in WWII air combat simulation.

You can't just laugh off the awful view system like that. It is not just overshoots, difficulty tracking the bandit makes E-fighting/roping/out-of-plane maneuvering very, very difficult, as does the the gunnery. Gives advantage to planes that can just saddle up at dead six 200 and wail away, and they already have enough advantage IMO.  :devil

What can I say about the gunnery? Well, if HTC has modeled ballistics, ROF, and lethality correctly, then IL2 is dead-wrong in a lot of areas, especially with .50s, or vis versa. Judging from combat reports and gun-cam footage, I'd go with HTC being correct. Remember, sim pilots have many more hours on target that even the most experienced combat pilots. (Actually in Il2 flying the cannon birds things seem closer to AHII, with the .50s you give 190s 3 second bursts at convergence to little/no effect. :noid. Multiple .30s seem about as effective as multiple .50s in Il2 :huh) If the guns are modeled correctly, then many sim pilots *should* be phenomenally lethal with 'em, right?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 10:15:59 AM by BnZs »
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Offline groundfeeder

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Re: Aces High 2 Vs WW2 Online Vs IL2.
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2009, 10:18:47 AM »
Tell us how you really feel sincraft!!!!!!!!!