Author Topic: Fiat G.55 I centauro  (Read 15774 times)

Offline Motherland

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2010, 06:44:30 PM »
Motherland: Your claim that wing guns are in some way ineffective is simply false.
Please point out where I said this? I said that a centrally mounted cannon is MORE effective, especially when the guns are SO far out on the wing. I never said that guns in any installation were ineffective. In any case I was talking about the C.205 not the G.55 (though I imagine that the G.55 would be around the same place to circumvent firing through the propeller arc).
50 rounds really isn't that much... I get the same amount of kills/sortie (adjusting for skill) in the G-6 and G-14 now as I did before the 200 round option was made available. It is more... .25 times more... but not that much.

Jolly, the G.55 Serie 0 (pre production) had 4 SAFAT's and 1 MG151/20 instead of the 2 SAFAT's and 3 MG151/20 of the G.55/1

Offline jolly22

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2010, 08:57:13 PM »
then lets take the G.55/1   :)

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Offline Boozeman

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2010, 04:57:06 AM »
I'm sorry.  The N1K is not a well rounded aircraft.  It turns and has 4 cannons.  That is its appeal.

Can you explain why you used a G-6 with a drop tank and gondolas for your comparison?  Only the greenest noobs ever load both on their aircraft.

It is rather well rounded. Comapred to the Hurri2c, itt also adds some speed, and, look and behold, last tour the Niki had 2x the usage of the Hurri.

I took the gondolas and DT to have a sound base for comparison. Noob or not, if you want serious firepower and decent range, you need to take these option, or take another plane. It's that simple. My argument for the G.55 is that you have these things without the need to compromise perfomance.

 

Offline Boozeman

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2010, 04:58:28 AM »
I'm just curious...how many kills did the G.55 get during its time in the war?

I dunno, probably the same or more than the Ta152.

Offline Boozeman

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2010, 05:41:06 AM »
No.
Especially when the MG151's are terribly mounted and only carry 1.25x the ammunition load of the single installation. I never said that they were equal, but I would not put the difference at 'substantial'. The C.205 has a considerable but not major advantage in firepower over the Bf 109G-6. The G.55 has maybe 2.75 the effective firepower of the G-6 but they still both have close to the same firing time, with the edge again going to the stromboli...
They have the same capabilities. The G.55 is just better at some and the G-6 at others.

Sorry, I have to disagree again. Just because in theory the mounting on the 109 is better ( in my opinion only for shooting at very close distances), it will not change the facts I stated. The 205 still does damage quicker and much more of it in total. Beside that, there could be situations where you might just miss with the 20 mm in the 109, but you still might hit with 1 of the 2 in the 205. Shooting out of convergence is not always a bad thing. The G.55s setup is the best of both worlds. It's true that the firing time is very similar, but you forget that the targets will be destroyed 3 times faster. That is a huge advantage, and thus the G.55 is much more capable at killing targets, both in time and quantity.     


I don't see D or N Jugs anymore. But do you see any more P47's as a whole than you used to? The M jug definitely took usage away from the rest of them, but did it take a significant amount of usage away from other planes? The M 'doesn't count' as it's a better version of what we have, while at the same time it's a perfect example because it's one of the better planes in the MA today, and it's still not all that much more common than the P47's used to be. At least from my observation.

To be honest, yes, I do see more Jugs around. And a lot more used offensively as fighters. And those are like 85% M-Jugs. And it most probably cannibalized a lot of D-Pony usage (see Lusches most rescent ststs) among other planes. And I think you just made a very good point for the G.55. Indeed the M is no revolution for the P-47 lineup (think as N-Jug minus 500lb... it's not that much of a difference in 14-15.000 lb planes), yet it has tremendous success...I see no reason why the G.55 being much better than many "similar" planes, shouldn't make a noticeable impact. 


Another example would be the B-239. It might be the best low/slow fighter in the game... the only competition it has is the A6M. How often do you see it?
The P39Q is another example. It's a perfectly capable, well rounded MW aircraft. Every time I take it up I marvel at how good it is, compared to how much you see it. It always does great in FSO. Yet how much do you see it in the MA?
I agree that the P-39Q is way underused. There are many reasons for that: Difficult rear views for instance, but the main reason is that almost no one takes the time to get used to the tater. It has a steep learning curve, and most just give up on it, before the plane can deliver the results.

As for the Brewster, it does not do too shabby for a strictly EW plane. It does much better than many of it's contemporaries. 

It's not a well rounded plane overall. It has no redeeming aspect, other than it turns OK and has 4 20mm cannon. Any plane that can turn with 4 20mm cannon is popular in this game. I mean, look at the Hurricane MkIIC...

Just for the record, the Niki has twice the usage of the Hurri - I guess 50 mph speed advantage OTD do make the Niki a more rounded plane.
And compared to the P-39Q, a well rounded plane in your opinion, the Niki is the superior plane overall. Yet it has no redeeming trait? 

Offline E25280

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2010, 08:45:54 PM »
It's not a well rounded plane overall. It has no redeeming aspect, other than it turns OK and has 4 20mm cannon. Any plane that can turn with 4 20mm cannon is popular in this game. I mean, look at the Hurricane MkIIC...
:rofl

In this game, the N1K is one of the better "jack of all trades" aircraft.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2010, 08:50:24 PM »
:rofl

In this game, the N1K is one of the better "jack of all trades" aircraft.
Compared to what would be 'well rounded aircraft' (IMO at least), the Spitfire Mk XVI, Ki 84, and La 7, the N1K is significantly slower and has a lower sustained climb rate, and accelerates more slowly than all of them. The only advantage it has vs. these aircraft are turn radius with full flaps (second largest with no flaps) and armament.

Offline E25280

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2010, 08:59:51 PM »
Compared to what would be 'well rounded aircraft' (IMO at least), the Spitfire Mk XVI, Ki 84, and La 7, the N1K is significantly slower and has a lower sustained climb rate, and accelerates more slowly than all of them. The only advantage it has vs. these aircraft are turn radius with full flaps (second largest with no flaps) and armament.
Spit and LA carry have shorter legs, and all the planes you mention have much smaller ammunition loads / total firing time.

LA in particular gets squirrely in slow flight IMO.

KI and (especially) the Spit also seem much more fragile to me than the N1K.

IMO and YMMV.
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Offline Doberman

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #83 on: January 28, 2010, 02:49:10 AM »
I've been a proponent of the G.55 since the early Warbirds days.  :)

All this talk of "importance" or "impact" and whatnot seems ridiculous to me.  We got all of that a LONG time ago.  We're well past the point of NEEDING anything that had ANY real significant impact (other than maybe the B-29.  And, I suppose the Mig & Yak 3's.  And if I'm feeling generous, the A-26.  But that's it.  ;)  )  We're at the stage where what gets added is yet another model of something we already have, or something that's being added for completeness and will never be a big player outside of scenarios.

I could care less about the former but support the latter in all its forms.  An early war piece o' crap that'll make for a great scenario?  Hooray!  A solid mid-war plane that'll see at least some use in more than one arena?  Sounds great!  Gimme more of both please, before we get another ... well hell, ARE there any more Spit or 109 or 190 versions left?  We're swimming in a veritable Roman numerical alphabet soup of them.  And don't get me started on the P-47s.

Really, it should come down to this simple fact:

The G.55 is the best looking plane not already in the game.




Offline AApache

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2010, 06:50:37 AM »
That would be pretty enjoyable. The Gruppo / Stormo  C.205 needs a buddy !!!!  :devil
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Offline jolly22

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2011, 08:35:57 AM »
+1  :noid

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Offline Stoney

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #86 on: March 12, 2011, 08:38:51 AM »
N-E-C-R-O...
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Offline jolly22

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2011, 08:43:40 AM »

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Offline moot

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2011, 09:10:12 AM »
You bumped it without adding anything of substance..

Myself I'll say that you can't just pick historical significance or pure performance on their own.  AH would definitely be more boring if either of those two had been taken as sole criteria for priority of new planes.  Ideally you give players a bit of both.  From all the G55 arguments on both sides, it sounds like 1 historically significant Italian planes would weigh as much in AH goodness as 2 G55.  Either way you'd probably make a lot of people happy, esp Italians no doubt, if you added a G55 or a more historically significant model.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 09:12:28 AM by moot »
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Offline EagleDNY

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Re: Fiat G.55 I centauro
« Reply #89 on: March 12, 2011, 03:49:32 PM »
I'm going to add a +1 for the G.55 - I do think it is a good idea to have the 'ultimate' fighter of each nation in the mix for comparison, and I think the G.55 would get some use in the MA (at least as much as the C.205).  I'd by flying, that is for sure.  It should have sufficient firepower for buff hunting, and if the C.205 is any indication it ought to dive like hell and be controllable at speeds that would lawn dart any of the 109s.