Author Topic: P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort  (Read 1065 times)

Offline J_A_B

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2001, 12:35:00 AM »
Once again, here's a "best plane" thread, which ignores economics.

The P-38 is an excellent plane.  So is the P-51.   Perhaps, in a 1 on 1, the P-38 might have a slight advantage over the P-51, however.....

A P-51D cost about $50,000

A P-38L cost about $125,000

So tell me--are two P-38L's going to be as effective as 5 P-51D's???

Not likely!


Also unmentioned is time required for construction--the P-51 took fewer than half the man hours to build, meaning losses could be replaced that much faster.

Further adding to the P-38's woes, the supply situation for the P-38 was a headache compared to that of the P-51.  Each P-38 required two sets of parts for every major component, and these had to be shipped all the way from the USA.  OTOH, the P-51 required just 1 set of major parts per plane, and these parts were mostly easily available in Britain.

In the pacific, where the supply situation was exactly the opposite of that in Britain (American parts were easier to come by in the PAC), and losses were nowhere as severe, the P-38 performed as the excellent fighter it was.

The P-38 was not well suited to the mission requirements in Europe.  It cost too much and was too hard to keep operational.  The P-51 was simply better suited to the conditions.  Likewise, the P-38 was better suited to the conditions in the Pacific.


As for which was actually the better plane?  Depends on whether you're in Europe or the Pacific    

J_A_B

Offline Tac

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2001, 12:40:00 AM »
yep. not to mention the $#@$#@ pencilnecks that ditched the P-38K (which from what I read would OWN the P-51).

History is so cruel..  

Offline Widewing

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B:

A P-51D cost about $50,000

A P-38L cost about $125,000

So tell me--are two P-38L's going to be as effective as 5 P-51D's???

You mean 2.5 P-51s, right?  

Your point is well taken, the P-38s performance did not justify its cost and much greater operational cost in dollars and manhours. This is primary reason that the P-38 was superceded by the Mustang in AAF service. Moreover, it is the only valid reason ever presented with anything close to a basis in fact.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline F4UDOA

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2001, 10:42:00 PM »
Sable,

You have some great information there on loss per sortie data. Any chance of you posting this stuff somewhere??

Widewing,

Anychance of getting a look at the original docs that you have posted. I'm curious about fuel used and weather there was anything done to clean up the airframe.

Offline Sable

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2001, 12:25:00 AM »
Sure thing ... I'll try to scan them in the next few days.  Btw, there are like 20 pages of analysis on B-17 and B-24 losses, talking about fighters vs. flak, fires, engine loss.  Very interesting stuff.

Sable
352nd FG

 
Quote
Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Sable,

You have some great information there on loss per sortie data. Any chance of you posting this stuff somewhere??

Widewing,

Anychance of getting a look at the original docs that you have posted. I'm curious about fuel used and weather there was anything done to clean up the airframe.


Offline Widewing

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2001, 08:49:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dune:
My grandfather flew both the -38J and the -51D with the 384th FS/364th FG.  He had roughly 30 missions in Lightenings, including several to Berlin. (he had another 50 in Mustangs)

Could you tell me your grandfather's name? I know a few members of the 364th. I'm sure you know that John Lowell eventually took command of the 364th (he flew with your grandfather's squadron. George Ceuleers also flew with the 364th (383rd FS). If you'd rather not post that info here, you can send it to:  editor@worldwar2aviation.com

Well, now I have to go out and shovel 16 inches of snow out of the driveway so that I can get into the office this afternoon.

My regards,

Widewing

My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Dune

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2001, 01:47:00 PM »
Widewing,

My grandfather's name is David W. Williams.  He was a 1st Lt at the time.  He is living north of Dallas now.

Yes, I know Col Lowell took over the 364th, although it was temporary.  He relieved Col McManus (who'd taken over while Col Eugene Roberts was Z.I.) and was CO for about a month until Roberts returned.  I have had the honor of writing to him on several occasions and even having my copy of the "History of the 364th Fighter Group" autographed by him.

BTW, here are two pictures of my grandfather that I sent to Peter Randall's 8th Air Force Fighter Groups Page

 

 

(although Mr. Randall incorrectly has him listed as a Cpt.)

------------------
Col Dune
C.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

Offline bolillo_loco

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2001, 06:48:00 PM »
you know when I am not drunk I am going to read the above!! ok ya me voy pa mexico porque hay muchas pinches viejas de alla! y todas me quieren!!!!!

Sorrow[S=A]

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2001, 07:16:00 PM »
Ok, your probably gonna kill me for this one Dune but...

I swear to god your dads flying a pregnant mare from looking at that photo and the angle it was shot from!

Honest to god, that has to be the ugliest picture of a Mustang I have ever seen.

 

Offline J_A_B

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P-38 Performance, 8th AF escort
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2001, 07:38:00 PM »
That's the funny thing about the Mustang...

From some angles, it's the most beautiful thing ever to have wings.

From others, it is a butt-ugly pregnant horse.

There's no in-between.

J_A_B

(shaddup right now all you LW types who are thinking up a witty reply!!!!      )