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Author Topic: Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo  (Read 647 times)

Offline gatt

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« on: July 20, 2000, 03:37:00 AM »
We have evidence (from some italian books) that the 12,7mm Breda-SAFAT heavy MG fired explosive projectiles. The whole ammo load was called "SIT". "SIT" means explosive + incendiary + tracers. We are looking deeper into it.

Does anyone know anything more? Thx for any help.

GATT


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-20-2000).]
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Mox

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2000, 10:29:00 AM »
If HT models this kind of ammo in the 205 she'll be my bird of choice again!  

Mox
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[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 07-20-2000).]
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Offline Pyro

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2000, 03:19:00 PM »
Correct, the Japanese Army also copied this ammunition for the Ho 103. I've also seen reference that while the Italians developed this shell, it was not used due to international law.  I don't really believe that as just about everybody else used them.  It's not like it's worse than dropping CW on Ethiopians.



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Offline gatt

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2000, 02:45:00 AM »
Here is a link of a real C.202 gun-camera posted by Visconti:

 http://angelfire.lycos.com/nt/mio/c202breda.zip

Not bad for 2x12,7mm only. Looks like they are explosive indeed  


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-23-2000).]
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Sorrow[S=A]

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2000, 12:01:00 AM »
your dead on right gatt- unless thats a .205 not a .202 theres an explosive round in play there- notice how after the victim slides to the left and down some of them detonate against pieces of cowling spinning off high and to the right of the plane?
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Offline gatt

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2000, 05:27:00 AM »

No, she was definitely a C.202 and 95% of the C.202 had the wing 7,7mm removed.

Moreover no C.205V fought so early in the desert air-war and the first Series of the C.205V had only 2x12,7mm and 2x7mm.

I think that playability requires some "tuning" of gun lethality. However, I do believe that 12,7mm BREDA-Safat mounted on Macchis are a lil' weak.
 
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline gatt

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2000, 08:44:00 AM »
Hi PYRO,
[from the thread about C.202 gun camera]
few days ago Ariete managed to talk with an italian WWII Macchi armourer. He confirmed that S.I.T. ammo did contain explosive cartridges.
Moreover we are trying to contact Nicola Malizia, co-author with B.Cull and some others of very interesting books (the Malta series and the last "Spitfires over Sicily").
He was in the Regia Areonautica during WWII and he probably knows how Macchis's 12,7mm belts were built up. We'll let you know.
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"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Pyro

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2000, 11:50:00 AM »
Hey Gatt, not sure what you're looking for but maybe this will help.  It's a diagram of a 12.7mm HEI round for the Breda.  I took the liberty of labeling the PETN explosive filler.

 

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Offline Pyro

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Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm ammo
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2000, 11:51:00 AM »
Hey Gatt, not sure what you're looking for but maybe this will help.  It's a diagram of a 12.7mm HEI round for the Breda.  I took the liberty of labeling the PETN explosive filler.

 

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