Sprial Climbing: G10 versus N1K2

[Karnak]

juzz,
Oops, I didn't see that post.

In that case you are quite right,the Bf109G-10 is MUCH faster than the N1K2 at 20k.

In this case the Bf109G-10 should have simply extended and then climbed.  There is nothing the N1K2 could have done about it.

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For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[GRUNHERZ]

Niki performs too well in the vertical, frankly there is no doubt of this anymore even pyro said a while back that there is something off in its verical climbing performance. I have outclimbed expertly flown P51s at 28k in a 75% fueled niki, so much so that I forced them to dive away as my closure rate would put them in my guns range.
Nikis retain E far too well for vertical manuovers after extremly hard turns and breaks. I speak from experience here lots and lots of both flying nikis and fighting them in G-10s, and have seen them keep with me in zoom climb even close unless I had tremendous initial speed advantage. A 109 G10 will outclimb a niki no doubt but the advantage is so minor due to nikis reluctance to stall in pure vericals as to give the 109 few options to attack the niki. The 109 will always stall before the niki in this situation, often I find myself flopping like a fish stalled on top of my zoom and the lower E state niki is still climbing and of curse spraying madly with its cannon. This is another issue that drives me nuts it seems that recoil isnt effective in slowing planes down in zoom climbs and causing them to stall. There is a recoil effect in autoclimb and level flight, but i have not noticed such an effect at all in zooms- the vsi  keeps at 4000fpm plus all the way till stall when it suddenly drops- there is never a gradual decline caused by gun recoil. Nikis arent right, im no aerodynamics expert but it doesnt feel like the other planes in here. Im sorry if that isnt good enough for some of you but I can only speak from my extensive experience flying in and fighting vs the niki. Ive said this before and will reapeat in endlessly the niki roughly has the FM of the Janes WW2 Fighters Spit9, climbs turns at will, regains speed immediatly after stall, useless stalls etc etc- I flew WW2Fighters for online almost 2 Years on a dailiy basis and I swear they have damn simmilar FM. This is a shame on AH.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Regurge]

 

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:

...There is a recoil effect in autoclimb and level flight, but i have not noticed such an effect at all in zooms- the vsi  keeps at 4000fpm plus all the way till stall when it suddenly drops- there is never a gradual decline caused by gun recoil...

Considering that 4000fpm is 45mph going straight up, I dont expect you would see recoil effecting the vsi before a stall. Even in a 45 degree zoom that vsi will be pegged till the plane drops below 65mph

[Lepton]

Yeah, basically the N1k used a little low yoyo to cut inside your turn and nail you. Let's face it, AH is pretty generous on the gunnery model, so that 1K separation is not very much - it's extreme gun range. Couple that with the lack of serious recoil effects, and shooting on the edge of the stall is no big deal.

What all this boils down to is that you must be very careful when initiating a spiral climb against any opponent in a co-E state. Given the situation you described, I would think that a very shallow initial climb to gain some speed would have been helpful before starting the spiral. The G10 will outrun, outclimb, and out accelerate the N1k at 20k. However, you've got to expect to lose 2-300 yards when you start the spiral, and ideally you'd like your opponent outside of gun range during the spiral.

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Jekyll:
Spat, 1k separation is way too close to commence a spiral climb against ANY aircraft.

...

Keep it fast    

Thanks Jek, as a P51 kind guy when i flew the g10 the spiral climb defense was a real novelty for me. I dont know the when-to's and the when-not-too's about such a defense. Looks like i learned my lesson well.

I hindsight i cant believe i didnt just seperate off, i was having a blast engaging 3 cons to start off with down low and fighting them of while gaining altitude, got to 20k and got careless. My fault entirely. Just wanted some people to comment on the situation, it wasnt a moan about nikis.

But i dont think anyone actaully answered my question. Would a lo yoyo be effective at cutting off the corner and gaining enough speed to put your nose up again to take the shot? I thinks thats what he did, was hard to tell, and it seemed to work  

Thnks

[edit] oh looks like lepton answered my question - cheers.

[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Jekyll]

 

Would a lo yoyo be effective at cutting off the corner and gaining enough speed to put your nose up again to take the shot?

Yes.  Absolutely Yes!

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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

[C_R_Caldwell]

Gatt, the C.205 has roughly the same wing-loading as the G-10, so you are right about it not being a low-wing loading bird.That said, the G-10 & C.205 both have loadings a couple of lb per sq. ft lower than the P-51D ;-).

As far as gliding for ever, if you think it was bad in the Veltro, try it regularly in the G-10. If you have run out of gas, or your engine is dead & you need to ditch *quickly* because bandits are bearing down, you can probably forget it.The G-10 seems to glide & glide for *ever*.

Even banking into a couple of 360 degree turns doesn't seem to bleed E fast enough.By the time you have bled off enough E to ditch, it is too late because the enemy is blasting you to smithereens.Often, if I am at low alt I just point the nose up to get as much alt as possible (even a dead G-10 seems to grab alt like a horny chimp chasing a female up a tree) & then puch out.

[Glasses]

I've found my self many times the 109's patented Spiral climb doesn't work too well as it did back in 1.03 no some planes after a sustained turn can zoom up or after a shallow dive gain a burst of closure to within d400 or d500 until they blast away for the long raging allied guns then stall and go back to earth happily with their kills as for the Hammer since 1.04 I cannot execute this maneuver .  As to the 109 being a good climber yes it is a good climber but only  on  wep and at a speed of 150mph in AH . But in sustained zoom as soon as you go above C\l max it is almost impossible to perform a Hammerhead because the whole aircraft starts to wobble ,cough stall like a darned C47 IMO the slats for high AoA would make  this  perfect for being stable at such extreme angles.

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