Bombs and Rockets

[Minotaur]

HEHE      

So sorry, but I feel the need to re-hash this again.  

Here is why:

In my trusty P-38 I was loaded with 2 x 1000 pounders.  I make a steep low level attack on a Panzer.  I make a good drop, below d600.  On zoom out I immediately check six, waiting for a kill message.  

Sadly, I don't get a kill message.      

But, what I see in my six view gets me to wondering.  The tank was moving during my attack and has continued to move.  I see 2 bomb craters (bombs rippled at min).  The tank has moved and is almost onto one crater, the other crater is almost directly behind it.  

This, I am assuming, means that my drop was right on target.  One bomb fell short, one fell long.  The tank was smack dab in the middle of the bomb craters.  NO KILL!  In fact, I don't think I even damaged it very much at all.

I realize that "Bomb Craters" are not really modeled.  But...  1400 or so pounds of TNT, close proximty and shrapnel has just got to do something, doesn't it?

Seems the only way to kill a tank is a direct hit.  I find that dropping 2 bombs at once doesn't do twice the damage.  You just split the target.  But, if you drop one bomb on target this takes the tank out.

PS:  There is no need to post "How to do it" comments, please realize that "I know how to do it".  This thread is for a discussion about bomb / rocket damage radius effects and to dispel any misconceptions that I may have.

Thanks!      

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"You think Pyro has an attitude, you ought to wake up next to me some morning!"
Ghosth

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 07-27-2000).]

[Tac]

Yes, it seems that there is no blast damage modeled here. Oddly enough, if you drop a bomb at treetop level your plane will get blasted out of the sky, yet if you drop 1000 pound bomb right next to a fuel tank or an m-16 nothing will happen.

Blast damage would be extremely cool to have, as it would allow "carpet bombing" raids and other wicked things to do when cap'ing a base.

The blast damage in SWOTL is the one and only place where i've seen it modeled to my liking... perhaps HTC could do something like this in the future? I would LOVE to see a piece of a tank flying off and hitting an ammo bunker and setting IT afire muahaha  

[ra]

I don't know, I've dropped bombs on acks and missed by quite a distance and still the ack died.

ra

[funked]

Acks die easy, but you pretty much need a direct hit on vehicles.  I think we need some real-world data.  Let's test this on Pyro's car at the Con.  

[Fishu]

I've had no problem with killing tanks or any other thing with 1000lb, goes pretty easy.
(twice I've took down 2 panzers in F4u-1c within 1 minute, they blew up quite good)

More problems I get from the convergence of rockets in P-38.
Once tested rockets against tank in P-38, I was laughing when I saw that rockets from left wing hit past the rear of tank and rockets from right wing hit past the front of panzer  
One thing that bothers me with rockets is that those are not even closely a match for Hispano.
You might damage tank with rocket or do nothing (or maybe even blow up the whole thing), if you manage to hit, but in that time you do that, you would probably had done the same with hispanos in alot shorter time and alot more safer.
I'd like to see that issue being fixed, then I am about, if not already, ready to pay for AH.

[Citabria]

they changed it guys

you drop 2 1ks on both sides of a panzer or if panzer is in the crater it blows up nicely

rockets dont do much to tanks though still  


great on m16s though  

[Vermillion]

Definitely agree that the "Blast Effect" seems to be almost non-existent in AH.

I started a thread a while back where we did Rocket and Bomb testing, and I computed up a bunch of data of bomb explosive strength comparitive to 20mm cannon shells.

In our testing you could hit within half a wingspan of a P-38, between the nose and the wingtip with a rocket, and not do any damage.

In another case, we got one rocket to hit actually between the tail booms of the 38, and it caused damage (nothing catastrophic, but we did get pings) but did not kill the aircraft.

Unfortunately, It may be a "gameplay" issue.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Ash]

 Seeing this discussion on ROX, I would also like to bring up the fact that the WGr 21s are totally non functional. Right now they can only be used as 2 large 210mm rounds.
 I wonder if there are different "modeling" schemes for "hard" targets < those stationary on the ground >, verses those that are moving. I've also hit B-17s with ROX from a P51 and had no unique damage inflicted.

OTR,
    Old Ash
    III./JG2
    < Chairman of "Fix the WGr 21 Crusade" >

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by Citabria:
they changed it guys

you drop 2 1ks on both sides of a panzer or if panzer is in the crater it blows up nicely

rockets dont do much to tanks though still  


great on m16s though  

Changed it when?  Well, that is what I did and that is not what happened.  

When I drop on a tank I generally really go to the edge.  Just high enough that I don't frag my own prettythang, but low enough for maximum accuracy.

I am pretty darn sure that I dropped directly front and behind because that is where the craters were.  The tank took the licking and kept on ticking.  This seems like a whole lot of bad stuff going boom and nothing blowing up.

In any case we need to get some real world data and the damage radius could be more a function of game play, as Verm states.  

The idea of significant bomb craters would be more realistic, but I am sure that a tactic for the use of craters would be used more for shutting down airfields than stopping tanks.

IMO 2 x 500 bombs should handle a Panzer quite nicely, but as ussual how the he!! could I know.    

Thanks for the replies!  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"OUCH!!!  It hurts to bite your tongue."
Popeye

[Sn1p3r]

A little off-topic but I thought this would interest some of the 38 drivers.

I got to talk to a 38 driver from WWII this last weekend and his primary function was jabo.  I asked what the correct dive angle was for attacks and this is what he said...

"briefed dive angle was 40-45 degrees, but I preferred 90 degrees... it left less room for interpretation"

Cracked me up ... just thought I would share it.

-snipe

[Andy Bush]

Sn1p3r

It is a fact that steepening the dive angle tends to reduce typical pilot errors.

One note of interest. In a 90 degree dive, the pilot must hold zero G to keep his aiming symbol on the target (or his aim point if correcting for wind or target movement).

For those who have never experienced zero G in an aircraft, let me tell you it is uncomfortable and very difficult to maintain for any length of time, particularly when trying to track a specific point on the ground.

Not that it can't be done...or wasn't done...there's just a little more to it than first meets the eye.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 07-29-2000).]