Some Tanks For AH

[Rendar]

I think the Panther and the T-34 are good choices for our next tanks.  I'm not sure if anyone would want to drive an M4.  A M18 Hellcat is also pretty cool.  Top speed of over 50 mph.  
The Panther is not "uber" as it has its share of weaknesses.  It does have sloping armor and a HV 75mm gun though.

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Rendar

[This message has been edited by Rendar (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Kieren]

Panther was hands-down the best tank of the war. It is indeed uber.  

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Rendar:
I think the Panther and the T-34 are good choices for our next tanks.  I'm not sure if anyone would want to drive an M4.  A M18 Hellcat is also pretty cool.  Top speed of over 50 mph.  
The Panther is not "uber" as it has its share of weaknesses.  It does have sloping armor and a HV 75mm gun though.

Panther is by far uber. I'd try fighting a Tiger before taking on a Panther.

I must keep repeating myself on the M4A3E2-76...it is NOT a M4A1 or M4A3, the Shermans with a horrible rep...nor is it a an "Easy Eight"...the Sherman "Jumbo" has armor nearly twice as thick the PzIVH. It has a decent chance of living through a one on one engagement with a Tiger. Stats are in the "Pyro/Nate could you please add another tank?" thread.

Keep in mind on the Panther, it's armor is equal to a Tiger's, the 75mm is much more powerful, and it's faster.

And the T-34/76 was an early war tank (To give you and idea how advanced it was) that the Panther was based on and designed to destroy...so you would need at least a T-34/85 to make a good matchup which would leave the Panzer IVH useless in any case.

- Jig
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Tanks, smanks, gimme Dodge powerwagon.

[Pongo]

The only way the Panther could not be a perk tank is if you are playing in 1955 or 65.
It is easiely the best production tank of WW2.
And in tanks that is much worse news than in planes.

[Karnak]

I still say add the M4A3 Sherman and T-34/76 as the next tanks.

I'd be alright if the US got an inferior unit once.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Fishu]

Oh my, yanks and canucks complaining of uber tanks, which are produced since 1943, unlike their +1944 planes..
Come on, lets perk P-51D and P-47D, those are obviously too uber.. and F4u-1C too, its bit too rare and it has those uber cannons.
I wonder what Panzer VIB or JagdTiger would be, probably perk down so much that you could gain the points with one year playing..

Now, germans made superior tanks while yanks have those hype planes and all other neat stuff... lets face it, germans rule on the ground  

Panther would be sweet toy.. faster than Pz-IVh  

[Kieren]

Well FWIW, I never said don't model it. I only said it was uber.  

Let's not turn this into another Axis/Allied bashfest. I just got the sand out of my britches from the last go-around in the sand box...

[Pongo]

Karnak.
Exactly. The M4a3(75) would be cool in this game. Great HE, Hi rof, excellent AAMG, good speed. Good armour. Weak Anti Tank.
I would go with the T34(85) though. The design weaknesses of the earlier 2 man turrent T34s would be hard to portray in the game. And the 85 would be an interesting contrast to the IVH and the M4a3.
Better gun then the M4
Better armour and speed then the PzIVH.
Worse gun laying than either.
Not great HE round.
Lousy MGs.

Putting in planes that are supperior but still vulnerable too lesser planes is one thing.
Putting in a tank that is frontaly invulnerable to the others at anything more than 200meters, as fast as any of them and can destroy them at over 20 times that range is totally different.

The Tiger II and Jpzr VI where not so bad really. It would be along way to anywhere in one. Almost any hill in the game could defeat them. Any of the medium tanks could avoid them. Not so the Panther. And with its gun and armour It may as well be a Tiger II.
I know it was a common tank. But the thing puts the "P" in perk.

Definatly bring it on. But perk it.

[Rendar]

OK, so the Panther is "uber".  But the rest of the vehicles are not.  Actually, the Panther being "uber" would be good as the Germans did not have that many of them going around.  This would help in balancing the battlefield a bit.

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Rendar

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Rendar:
OK, so the Panther is "uber".  But the rest of the vehicles are not.  Actually, the Panther being "uber" would be good as the Germans did not have that many of them going around.  This would help in balancing the battlefield a bit.

Your speculating again!  

Someone explain to me why the MG34's ROF is like a hand cranked gattling gun.

- Jig
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I are dweeb.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Karnak.
Exactly. The M4a3(75) would be cool in this game. Great HE, Hi rof, excellent AAMG, good speed. Good armour. Weak Anti Tank.
I would go with the T34(85) though. The design weaknesses of the earlier 2 man turrent T34s would be hard to portray in the game. And the 85 would be an interesting contrast to the IVH and the M4a3.
Better gun then the M4
Better armour and speed then the PzIVH.
Worse gun laying than either.
Not great HE round.
Lousy MGs.

Putting in planes that are supperior but still vulnerable too lesser planes is one thing.
Putting in a tank that is frontaly invulnerable to the others at anything more than 200meters, as fast as any of them and can destroy them at over 20 times that range is totally different.

The Tiger II and Jpzr VI where not so bad really. It would be along way to anywhere in one. Almost any hill in the game could defeat them. Any of the medium tanks could avoid them. Not so the Panther. And with its gun and armour It may as well be a Tiger II.
I know it was a common tank. But the thing puts the "P" in perk.

Definatly bring it on. But perk it.

I can live with a M4A3...it and the Panzer IV are a good match, but let's at least make it a M4A3-76. That way they are very close in speed, gun range, and armor. The high profile of the Sherman would surely play a signifigant role.

The Sherman's thicker top armor would prove to make it more tolerant to air attacks, and would be faster off road. The Panzer IV has a lower profile and more side protection with it's skirts. The guns are about equal in both AP and HE preformence.

Then on to the T-34/76c which is much faster then the Sherman or panzer on the road, about equal to the Sherman offroad. It also has very thick side and rear armor compaired to the Sherman and PzIV, and slightly less frontal and armor then the Sherman. It's 76mm is inferior to both the Sherman and PzIV's guns.

Sherman M4A3-76

Speed  41.8 km/h
Off Road 16.5 km/h
Rev Speed  21.0 km/h
Body Mass  31.1 tons

Front Armor  122.0 mm
Side Armor  38.0 mm
Rear Armor   38.0 mm
Front Turret  135.0 mm
Side Turret  51.0 mm
Rear Turret  51.0 mm
Top Armor  25.0 mm

 Turret
Traverse Speed  24 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -10.0 degrees
Elevate Max  25.0 degrees
projectile velocity(AP)  792 m/s
projectile mass(AP)  7.0 kg
Caliber  76 mm

T-34/76c

Speed  55.0 km/h
Off Road  15.0 km/h
Rev Speed  27.5 km/h
Body Mass  30.9 tons

Front Armor  94.0 mm
Side Armor  57.0 mm
Rear Armor  66.0 mm
Front Turret  103.0 mm
Side Turret  55.0 mm
Rear Turret  55.0 mm
Top Armor  25.0 mm

Turret
Traverse Speed  36 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -3.0 degrees
Elevate Max  30.0 degrees
projectile velocity(AP)  655 m/s
projectile mass(AP)  6.3 kg
Caliber  76 mm

Panzer IVH

Speed  38.0 km/h
Off Road  8 km/h
Rev Speed  19.0 km/h
Body Mass  25.0 tons

Front Armor  82.0 mm
Side Armor  30.0 mm
Rear Armor  21.0 mm
Front Turret  80.0 mm
Side Turret  33.0 mm
Rear Turret  30.0 mm
Top Armor  10.0 mm

Turret
Traverse Speed  14 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -8.0 degrees
Elevate Max = 20.0 degrees
projectile velocity(AP)  790 m/s
projectile mass(AP)  6.8 kg
Caliber  75 mm

- Jig
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"I looked up and there was a Tiger pointing it's 88mm directly at me. I froze, standing there. The bastards fired , the shell whizzing by and exploding behind me. although the shell knicked me, the concussion from the explosion rendered me unconcious. A private then tossed a thermite gernade into the commander's hatch, at which point five very badly burned Germans surrendered to our meeger little force. At this point I was coming to and was being taken into a ambulance truck one of the Germans being carried past me. He then with a queer little smile, looked at me from his badly burned face and asked in bad english 'got a cigarette?'. It took all three corpsmen to keep me from beating the hell out of him" -- Sgt during the Ardennes skirmishs.

[pzvg]

Hold it folks, The Panther, aside from being my namesake, was a very good tank, I grant,
however, let's tune to reality here.
1) 75mm gun same as PzIVH
2) armor thicker than IVH, not as thick as Tiger
3) mobility about on par with IVH
4) anti-aircraft capability, same as any tank, ie; none
Where does the "Uber"(gawd that word is abused) part begin?
The panther's main bonus was the well designed sloped armor,it was a good medium tank with a decent gun, nothing more, nothing less, and in an arena where 98.9% of tank kills come from aircraft, the exclusion of any tank is plain silly, you want to see Uber? have NATEDOG put a Flakveirling on the IVH's hull and you'll see pilot's screaming to the high heavens.
I say we need: panther,tiger,T-34,Sherman,hellcat, (the list goes on and on, some 3,455 types of armor in WWII, but outta time)

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by pzvg:
Hold it folks, The Panther, aside from being my namesake, was a very good tank, I grant,
however, let's tune to reality here.
1) 75mm gun same as PzIVH

Panther has 75mm L70, Panzer IV has 75mm L48 difference vs armour at range is huge.

2) armor thicker than IVH, not as thick as Tiger

Its frontal Hull armour is not thicker than the tiger but well sloped and much more effective. The front of the turrent is simular to tiger. It is about twice as well armoured as a panzer IV. It should also be noted the the manufacuring of German tank armour was supperior to the Allied tanks. The Face Hardened swedish steel they used amazed the allies with its resiliance.

3) mobility about on par with IVH

It is 20km/hr faster then a panzer IV.

4) anti-aircraft capability, same as any tank, ie; none

Has a mg34 on the roof. Which is not great but it makes it one of the best of ww2. Most really had none.

Where does the "Uber"(gawd that word is abused) part begin?

I say your wrong. Your stats above show how you got the impression. I think tanks are more prone to perking than planes. Because they have real imunities to each other. In the wide open ranges of AH the Panther, with no engine fires or gear box failures, would be even better then in WW2.
No other tank would be used by anybody but masochists if the Panther was freely available.  But what a perk to earn!

Jigster.
The Panzer IV and the M4a3 are not equal in armour. And they are not equal in speed. The Panzer IV H has a better gun the M4 is supperior in all other aspects. The side skirts are only effective against HEAT rounds, they dont add armour for AP purposes.
The 76.2 would give the M4 no disadvantages vs the Panzer IV.Give us the M4a375 I think.
I think it would be cool if the USSR had the top non perk tank. The set I chose established that. And any of them can kill any of the others. just the ranges vary.
And nothing would be cooler than a wave of T34 85s approaching a field and some one dusts of a perk and panthers them. he he he.
I would buy tickets for that.

As to the comments that only the Panther is uber. No but it is the most uber. The only tanks that can stand against it are much slower and usually have pathetic rof and or main armement rounds.


[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 07-31-2000).]

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Jigster.
The Panzer IV and the M4a3 are not equal in armour. And they are not equal in speed. The Panzer IV H has a better gun the M4 is supperior in all other aspects. The side skirts are only effective against HEAT rounds, they dont add armour for AP purposes.
The 76.2 would give the M4 no disadvantages vs the Panzer IV.Give us the M4a375 I think.
I think it would be cool if the USSR had the top non perk tank. The set I chose established that. And any of them can kill any of the others. just the ranges vary.
And nothing would be cooler than a wave of T34 85s approaching a field and some one dusts of a perk and panthers them. he he he.
I would buy tickets for that.

As to the comments that only the Panther is uber. No but it is the most uber. The only tanks that can stand against it are much slower and usually have pathetic rof and or main armement rounds.

I have been thinking it over an I agree...the 76 would give the Sherman no vices. The PzIV does come out to be the light-weight in forray however. The Sherman's offroad mobility, gun laying, and better armor will suffice.

My only problem is with the T-34/85...it's really not does not fit in with the other two, and would only serve a purpose if Panthers, or perhaps more fittingly a Tiger II was planned. But then we'd have to have M4A3E2-76's or T-26's  

Along with a Kv-85 and one of either the Su or IS series of course.

It would be interesting to see how much difference the gun laying ability of the US tanks has over the superior range and optics of the German, and the Russian's speed, and armor.

- Jig
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Churchill AVRE's. Now there's a pillbox buster.

[Pongo]

The T3485s gun is very simular to the 75 on a Panzer IV. It would be the best in the game of Armour vs Armour but the others could deal with it. It sets up for the perk tanks very nicly. And it is THE 1944 russian medium. Also it is much faster then the best AAMG we will have(ostwind) so It will have to make due with M16s or slow down. It has no AAMG is self.