Author Topic: More P-40 jingoism... 325 fighter group  (Read 335 times)

fire_ant

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More P-40 jingoism... 325 fighter group
« on: July 31, 2000, 12:34:00 PM »
Not to be obnoxious, but I just found another great commentary in support of the P40's performance as a fighter.  I think game designers have been undermodeling P40s just to make them seem to fit more with their bad historical reputation, but that rep may not be accurate...

(maybe this is where that 12 to 1 record comes from...)

This was passed on by someone on rec.aviation.military
The P-40 outclassed by the Me109?
Granted, the 109 had superior high altitude performance, but that wouldn't have been a concern on the eastern front. The P-40 could out roll the Me, out dive it (although the Me had an initial advantage), out turn it, had comparable speed, a more rugged airframe, more survivable plumbing arrangement, and superior firepower. The one major advantage (aside from high altitude performance) the Me had over the P-40 was a superior rate of climb. But the P-40 had a slightly superior zoom climb. Of course, the P-40 had greater lift capacity and range.
The 325FG flew 128 combat missions with the P-40 in the MTO.
Results:
Shot down in air-to-air combat:
96 Me 109
26 MC 202
7 Me 323
3 Ju 52
3 Fi 156
In addition, the 325's P-40s dropped 329,000 lbs. of bombs.

Losses:
17 to enemy fighters
6 to flak
5 to unknown causes (probably weather, fuel or mechanical)
3 to engine failure
2 to mid-air collision
1 to small-arms fire
1 to hitting high tension wires.
The 325FG had two brilliant victories over the Me 109 while equipped with the P-40. On July 1, 1943, while on a fighter sweep over southern Italy, 22 P -40s were bounced by 40 Me 109s. Results: one P-40 shot down, 20 Me 109s shot down.
On July 30, 1943, similar situation: 20 P-40s on a fighter sweep over Italy bounced by 35 Me 109s. One P-40 shot down, 21 Me 109s shot down. In these two battles, the 109s engaged the P-40s in classic, turning dogfights--and lost big time. The Curtiss fighter could outmaneuver the German fighter, take hits that would wreck the Me, and dish out much greater firepower than the 109. The Me's only clear superiority was in the climb, which was not helpful. It could not out-turn the P-40s, dive away from them or outrun them. Nor could it out shoot them or take as much punishment as they could. Add in the fact that the Mess. drivers faced a very aggressive bunch of pilots (the motto of the 325 was "Shoot the Bastards"), and it's no wonder they found themselves "screwed, blued and tattooed."
Never sell the P-40 short.

Offline Tac

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More P-40 jingoism... 325 fighter group
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2000, 02:10:00 PM »
Hear Hear! Bring on the Warhawk!  


Though one thing you gotta keep in mind with that data is that in 43 and 44 Germany's pilots were of really bad quality due to lack of fuel and other factors... most allied pilots either faced highly skilled vets like Galland or 10-hour trained kids.

But I agree, the P-40 should be in the planeset, it has a place of honor right besides the P-38!

Offline marcof

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More P-40 jingoism... 325 fighter group
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2000, 03:27:00 AM »
I flew the P40 in W/B last week in their WW2 Arena, and my P40 done almost everything you mentioned above, however I found that it "Compressed " a little in the dive,I found the P40B felt somewhat "lighter" and more responsive than the E model in W/B.

I flew her against zeros & Ki's, and her guns just ripped them apart from close range, also I could take damage and RTB.

Against the 109E/F she felt a little slow on the climb but in the turning fight she had upperb hand and done well.

Overall a very enjoyable experience...........and what was that I hear you ask.....well let me tell you a little secret that A/H's doesnt seem to know and that was that Allied A/C fought against Axis A/c....could someone please point this out to the A/H gang as they seem to be unaware of this fact.  

Offline Downtown

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More P-40 jingoism... 325 fighter group
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2000, 01:29:00 PM »
I believe that is from Erik Shilling who flew with the Flying Tigers .75 Kills.

He is a big defender of the P-40 and he was a test pilot for the P-47 also.

I believe you can find that info on the P-40.COM Website also.

Also C.C. Jordan (Sorry don't know the URL off the top of my head) has some of the same info and Interviews with Sakai, Shillings, Robert Johnson and other pilots.  Shilling and Sakai sat down and discussed the advantages and disadvantages of their aircraft.  Erik is IMHO very knowledgable about the P-40 for an 81 Yr Old.

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