Fw190D-9 vs. Spitfire MkXIV

[Buzzbait]

S!

The Spifire which is needed is the Spit IXLF with Merlin 66.  (without clipped wing, since most had normal wing) This aircraft maneuvers the same as the current Spit IXF, but has a much better climb, slightly slower speed at best alt, but better speed at low alt, and better climb:

>>>>>>>

Boscombe Down November 42
BS543 & BS551 VC wing, AUW 7,400

Performance of Mk IXs with low (LF) version of the intercooled Merlin

 BS543 (merlin 66)
Rate of Climb @ S/L ft/min  4620
rate of Climb full throttle height MS gear 4700
FS gear  3860 18,000
Rate of climb @ 30,000 ft/min  2125
Time to 10,000 ft (min)  2.15
Time to 30,000 ft (min)  8.4
Service ceiling (100ft/min)  40,900
Max Speed @ S/L (mph)  336
Full throttle height height MS gear  384
FS gear  407 @ 22,000
Level Speed @ 30,000ft  395

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This would be unperked, as it has a relatively slow S.L. and best Alt speed.

[Pongo]

Some kind of maximum merlin spit is needed non perk for the Brits. The spit IX we have is pretty good for beating up 190a8s and 109g6s but I doubt many of them fought 190d9s.

[Zigrat]

To my knowdledge late model spitfire 9s were still in widespread use in 1944

this would be the best version to add as a non perk late war brit aircraft, a late spit 9. perk the 14 tho.

[Buzzbait]

S!

Either the Spit IXLF or the Spit VIII were both used well into 1945 by RAF Squadrons.  Both had similar performance.  The IXLF was the most common and manufactured in the largest numbers of any Spitfire.

Performance figures for the Spit VIII:  (note:  +25 lb boost was used in later stages of war, with 150 octane fuel.  Rolls Royce found the only difficulty encountered was a quicker burning out of the exhaust stacks, nessesitating replacement more often)

>>>>>>>

Tested by Supermarine
Spitfire VIII JF275, Merlin 66, Rated power 1580 HP
Weight 7,770 pounds

Performance test Spitfire VIII

Top Speed (mph)  

Height------+18lb boost-----+25 lb boost

--0----------338 MS---------362 MS
2,800--------349------------374*
9,000--------374*-----------387 FS*
12,000-------371FS----------400*
14,000-------380*-----------409*
20,200-------405------------405

*FTH Full Throttle Height
MS  Low supercharger
FS  High supercharger

Rate of climb ft/min

Height-------+18 lb boost----+25 lb boost

---0----------4,610 MS--------5,580* MS
3,500---------4,610-----------5,050
6,400---------4,610*----------5,080 FS*
11,000--------3,960 FS--------5,100 FS
14,000--------3,990-----------4,600
27,400--------4,010*----------4.010

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Spitfire VIII's flew in Italy, Burma and there was a group active in the Ukraine in the Spring of 1944.  If anyone knows the exact Squadrons of that particular Group, I'd appreciate it.

[Nashwan]

Late model Spit VIII and IXs were in common use in 45, though not the base model we have now.
The problem is Fw190A8s and 109G6s were also common late in the war. What exists now in AH is a situation where there is a cap on one of the late war RAF planes, the Tempest, and no sign of the other RAF late war plane, the Spit XIV. There is no cap on the number of Fw190D9s. It creates an imbalance.
In real life the Luftwaffe was as likely, or more likely, to meet a Tempest or Spit XIV as the RAF was to meet a Dora or Me262. That is not the case in AH, and won't be if the Spit XIV is perked.
The RAF stuck with Spit IXs and XVIs because there was no real need to change. The allies greatly outnumbered the Luftwaffe, and the Merlin SPits had adequate performance. They were mostly engaged in ground attack, and not in 1 on 1 battles against equal numbers of Doras and G10s.
The situation in AH removes the numerical superiority and leaves anyone flying a SPitfire in an inferior outdated plane, up against unlimited numbers of late war fighters.

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by Nashwan:
The problem is Fw190A8s and 109G6s were also common late in the war

Let me tell you, the 109G6 we have in AH was NOT common late in the war. The G6 we have lacks MW50 and GM1, while in late '44 and '45, almost all were fitted with it.

This is only an acclaration, I think that the G6 is OK as it is, so we can use it realistically in 1943 scenarios. For the MA we have the G10 with MW50  

I agree to bring a MKVIII or a MkXVI (or both  ) to AH. Both would be OK non-perk planes for the Main Arena  

[Nashwan]

An VIII or XVI is hardly better than a IX.
The perk cutoff is too severe. If everything were perked, all at least all late war planes, then relative rarity could be factored into the cost. As it stands, the RAF has a 1942 planeset. With the Spit LF IX, VIII or XVI they would have planes that were introduced in 43. ( The XVI was just a IX with a Packard built engine and some minor mods)
The Spit IX and 190A and 109G6 were of the same generation. The Spit XIV and Tempest and Dora and 109G10/K4 were of the same generation. To perk the late war RAF edesigns and not those from other countries means anyoone flying RAF will do so in inferior planes.
RAM, you complained for a long time about the lack of a Dora in the game. You said it put the Axis at a disadvantage against the late war US planes. That is true, but now the RAF is at an even worse disadvantage. One of the late war German planes was available (109G10). For the RAF to soldier on with planes dating from 1942 or 43 is not only unfair it's unrealistic.
WW2OL is (hopefully) soon to be released. It promises historic match ups, not a fantasy mixed plane set where outdated planes are supposed to fight on equal numerical terms with planes that outperform them hugely. 1941 and 42 should be difficult, with Spit Vs fighting 190A3s, but that is the way things were. It is also nowhere near the imbalance of Dora v Spit IX.

[mx22]

In light of how perk system works (see F4U-1C example), I would not be surprised to see XIV being perked too. Though it's just my guess...

mx22

[Ripsnort]

The Dora will be perked too, so far, its numbers in the MA are getting close to the C--Hog, something like 15-16% of all sorties?

[mauser]

Hi Karnak
I thought you would change your mind   I didn't think the Spit XIV should be a perk before, and your comparison with the Dora says the same. But as we seem to be seeing a lot of Doras lately, I'm hoping it's a short-term thing like when the A5 came out. Otherwise, it should be a cheap perk also (then the Spit XIV would be a cheap perk too).  

mauser

[Karnak]

As a player that prefers the RAF, the only problem that I have with the Spitfire LF.MkIXc and the Spitfire F.MkXVIe is that they only slightly redress the problem.  They are not much better than the Spitfire F.MkIXc that we have now and are still vastly slower than what the USAAF, USN, VVS and Luftwaffe are equipped with (no, I don't count perks).

The problem I see is that the RAF's fast fighters are all going to be perks.  The Spitfire MkXIV will almost certainly be.  The Spitfire F.Mk.21 will be.  The Meteor F.MkIII will be.  The Tempest MkV is.

Maybe the Spitfire MkXII would redress the RAF's disadvantage.  It has a single stage Griffon engine.  Griffon III or IV IIRC.

Bring the Spitfire MkXII to Aces High!!!

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[Nashwan]

RAM, you seem to miss the point. Yes the 109G6 may have been improved late in the war, but did it have the same performance as the 109G10? The G10 has no restrictions on use, so every 109 can be the fastest model. The Dora is unrestricted so every 190 can be the best model.
Look at the figures for number of kills since 1.06 came out.  
At the time these figures were collected by AKDejaVu, the Dora had 1800+kils, 1300+ deaths. That is considerably more Doras than was ever made.
In comparison, the rest of the Fw190 series had less than 400 kills between them.
All 109s together had less than 500 kills, but even so more than half of all 109 kills were by the G10.
Giving late war planes with no restrictions is fine, but one of the drawbacks is early war planes won't be able to compete. When you give late war aircraft to all sides bar one, you creata an imbalance that makes it difficult for fans of that side to enjoy the game.
Calling it unfair when your late war planes are left out, but then campaigning to keep out another sides late war planes is hypocrisy.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
The Dora will be perked too, so far, its numbers in the MA are getting close to the C--Hog, something like 15-16% of all sorties?

Those numbers will most likely settle down.
Take in count that its still under new plane hype and everyone wants to try it out till they get bored with it.
I wouldn't get back into this until after a month at minimum, after then I guess there would be quite clear signs of dora getting less popular.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
The Dora will be perked too, so far, its numbers in the MA are getting close to the C--Hog, something like 15-16% of all sorties?

It will definalty be a more expensive plane, right now it is quite a deal.

[Kratzer]

I hope they don't pork... er perk... the dora.  I don't see it having a significant advantage over other aircraft in the arena, whereas the Tempest certainly does...  It is a great plane, and I love to fly it, but I don't do any better in it than I do in anything else (which is piss-poor to begin with).