Author Topic: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!  (Read 7275 times)

Offline Nemisis

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2009, 12:58:46 PM »
Fixed (imo). And  that's very circumstancial.

I'd probably redirect someone who wants the A8's firepower to a 110G2.  Probably not everytime, and I'm not quite saying that the 110G can totally sub for the A8, but it's a close call IMO. 
Not really. It Bf110 can't climb so good, and it can't turn so hot, and it can't outrun most planes.

I think most people over stress the importance of turn rate. Think about it this way: He out turns you but you have him in your sights for 6 secs. His turn rate dosen't matter if you put some 30mm shells into the cocpit.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2009, 01:02:38 PM »
Not really. It Bf110 can't climb so good, and it can't turn so hot, and it can't outrun most planes.

Neither can the A8.

Actually the 110G does indeed turn much better than a A8, and climbs almost about the same.
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2009, 01:13:11 PM »
The 110? Really? I hadn't noticed that but maybe you are right. If so then I just found a new top 10 fighter. How long can it turn like that? If it can only keep it up for 10 secs before it runs outa E then I don't know why you bothered bringing it up. You still won't win a turn fight, and while I said people overstress turn rate, I didn't say it's un important.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2009, 02:02:00 PM »
With some air moving over the wings the A8 is quite capable as long as the speed is up and let's face it, that's how most of the 190's are flown.  In a diving attack the turn rate and climb rate, while not incredible, are acceptable and all that WEP helps a lot in both a turn and in the zoom.  The same can't be said of the 110.  You need to throttle the 110 back in a dive giving up valuable E.  If you fly the A8 like a 190 it's just fine.  If you fly it like a zeke you're dead but that holds true for all the 190's (although the A5 lets you get a little closer).

IMO in a higher speed diving attack the A8 will actually out-turn the Dora.  This is why I don't like the Dora.  It fights you.  In fact I think the A8 might out-turn the Dora in a lufberry on the deck as well (I havn't looked at the official numbers).  At least I've never been afraid to try to out-turn a Dora and I can't remember losing to one in such a fight.

With some E, using the A8's roll rate in combination with advanced ACM I've killed every type of plane in the MA's, even the turny ones, but the window is short for a gun solution so you need to be thinking ahead all the time.  Like I said, give me a guns solution and I'll give you a downed pilot.

I've actually even won stall fights against Spits, F4U's, P-47's, 109K-4's, P-38's and the list goes on.  Now I'll attribute most of that to luck and pilot skill (not mine... lack of skill on the part of the other pilots primarily) although one of those K4 kills was against a very accomplished AH stick who's still alive in the dueling bracket.  It was still luck to a degree... he ran out of fuel after we had been going at it for 3-4 minutes.

Anyway, as I said, I like the plane and given the general competition level in the MA's it's quite capable.
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Offline moot

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2009, 04:17:22 PM »
Yenny - It's the same gun but some people find the aiming totally different.  I reckon the cockpit cues throw em off.

BE/Nemisis - The biggest problem with the 110 is its target area and the speed limit.  Nonetheless its easier to aim, more flexible to aim with, and actually maneuvers.  The advantage of maneuverability at high speed, given how mediocre the A8's climb is, is marginal IMO.  Co-E, Co-alt, same experienced pilots, the A8 is tied or losing in just about any MA matchup. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 04:24:24 PM by moot »
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Offline NaughtyN

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2009, 02:51:36 AM »
Quote
IMO in a higher speed diving attack the A8 will actually out-turn the Dora.  This is why I don't like the Dora.  It fights you.  In fact I think the A8 might out-turn the Dora in a lufberry on the deck as well (I havn't looked at the official numbers).


The A8 with its higher drag and weight will lose E faster when you turn it at high speeds. So it closes to its corner speed faster than the D9, which carries its speed longer. This creates the immersion the A8 could outturn the Dora. In a D9 vs. other FWs fight, i find it most important to know, when the horsepower available to you is your friend or foe. If you try to turn with an A5 or A8 with the throttle firewalled its likely your better E retention will give them a chance to force an overshoot. If cut it in time, you can stay behind them and than use the extra HP to close in for the kill. And against a5 or A8 the D9 always has the option to hit WEP and use the extra HP to generate and advantage, most times in the vertical.

Quote
At least I've never been afraid to try to out-turn a Dora and I can't remember losing to one in such a fight.

I can state the same if going D9 vs. A5 or A8.  :)


Quote
With some E, using the A8's roll rate in combination with advanced ACM I've killed every type of plane in the MA's, even the turny ones, but the window is short for a gun solution so you need to be thinking ahead all the time.  Like I said, give me a guns solution and I'll give you a downed pilot.

Fully agreed BE. The A8 greatest strenght over the D9 are the extra cannons IMO, cause they almost guarantee that even a short guns solution will result in a kill. Often in the D9 my prey gets hurt but not cripled, cause those 1-2 extra 20mm rounds are missing. 

Offline moot

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2009, 04:54:55 AM »
I don't think the A-8 ever was better than the D-9 in a flat turn.



Turn radius:

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Offline Nemisis

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2009, 12:29:47 PM »
OK, so most people think the A8 is somewhat suckish in turnrate, and climb rate, and can't dogfight for beans. Is that correct? I still say it's better than the Bf110, but that may be personal preferance.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2009, 12:47:11 PM »
I still say it's better than the Bf110, but that may be personal preferance.

Performance is important, but so is being comfortable in a plane. Only when you are, you will truly be able to make it dance.
F4U's, for example, are great fighting machines, but for some reason I'm less then stellar in them - because I don't feel comfortable in them
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2009, 01:06:21 PM »
Same here. I am decent in the IC, and OK in the rest, but that is it. I am much more comfortable in my P-51, P-47, and my C. 205.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2009, 02:26:11 PM »
Moot, I assume that's yards and not feet?

It can't be right. Shows identical turn radius for 30mm armed and normal armed A-8s. The 30mm option is over 500 lbs of extra weight compared to the 2-gun option. [Edit: that's over 200lbs more than the 4x20mm option]

The F-8 is modeled identically to an A-8 (which is wrong) but has 500lbs extra weight onboard (over 1000lbs more than A-5). Same wing, same power, it should have a significanly worse turn radius.


(not to mention the A-8 as-modeled in AH is already 500lbs overweight, but one can hope that will be fixed)

Offline moot

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2009, 07:20:50 PM »
It's from Kweassa's 2.06 turn tables.  The A8 is worse than the D9 in Gonzo's charts (with MOSQ data) too.  And that looks like it's with light guns, going by the lethality comparison: the 152 is slightly stronger than the A8.
http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/index.php
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2009, 08:12:57 PM »
OK, so most people think the A8 is somewhat suckish in turnrate, and climb rate, and can't dogfight for beans. Is that correct? I still say it's better than the Bf110, but that may be personal preferance.

The A8 is a bit of a hog, but it's my favorite 190 to take up heavy-gunned (I preffer the 4x20mm package) for buff-busting if I have the time to get the altitude in it.  But I still would probabley preffer a 110 for buff busting given the same situation, simply because if I'm already looking at the A8 I'm looking for something with guns and the 110 I feel is a bit more durable for tackling buffs.

My overall favorite of the 190s though is the Dora, and I would love to see more variants of it added into the game (much like how we have an A5 and A8).  Recently in the LWA during the late-night scene you'll see me mostly in my Dora or a few times a week in my pony.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2009, 08:17:11 PM »
It's from Kweassa's 2.06 turn tables.  The A8 is worse than the D9 in Gonzo's charts (with MOSQ data) too.  And that looks like it's with light guns, going by the lethality comparison: the 152 is slightly stronger than the A8.
http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/index.php


 Moot,I think lethality is basic gun package,and not a comparison of the A8's full firepower!

 Without an ammo count and of the top of my head,lets see 2x30 plus 2x20 plus 2x13 is somehow less lethal than 1x30 plus 2x20,those are mm.
 Admittedly,it's been awhile since I've flown either 1 but I think the gonzo chart isnt giving the full picture!


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Offline moot

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Re: The FW190D9, my new favourite long endurance fighter!
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2009, 08:34:02 PM »
I know; what I'm suggesting (not sure since they're different people's data) is that the turn performance figures are with light guns too.  More guns would have the A-8 falling even further behind.  I'm just going to go test them myself and see.
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