Suprise!!!!

[CptTrips]

Statements like this are one of the VERY few places where I can sympathize with animal rights groups. Killing a snake just because it's venomous is needless. Now if it's about to strike you, a family member, pet, etc. is one thing. You're defending yourself, that's fine.  If for whatever reason you like the taste of snake meat (I understand snake tastes a lot like chicken, never tried it myself, tho) and are out actually hunting them is ok, too. But seeing one sunning itself on a log thirty feet away is no reason to go grab a shotgun and start blasting just because it's there.

Saxman,

I respectfully disagree.  However, I will refine my statement somewhat.  I will kill any poisonous snake I see...on my property.  If I was hiking out in the Grand Canyon and saw one off the trail, I wouldn't worry about it.

I have to move around and work on this 15 acre.  I have friends and family with children that visit and play around and let their dogs wander.  I have guest that come set up their telescopes and are moving around at night without lights.

I intend to keep the population of poisonous snakes on my property to the absolute minimum.  I intend to be the natural selective pressure to make my piece of dirt a poor enviroment for those species.  It is not only the risk of that individual snake that I might run into again later under less fortunate circumstances, but thats also one less breeder that might crawl under the nice shadey spot under one of my buildings and lay 1000 eggs. 

Sorry.  On my property, those species get culled with extreme prejudice.

,
Wab

[MORAY37]

Saxman,

I respectfully disagree.  However, I will refine my statement somewhat.  I will kill any poisonous snake I see...on my property.  If I was hiking out in the Grand Canyon and saw one off the trail, I wouldn't worry about it.

I have to move around and work on this 15 acre.  I have friends and family with children that visit and play around and let their dogs wander.  I have guest that come set up their telescopes and are moving around at night without lights.

I intend to keep the population of poisonous snakes on my property to the absolute minimum.  I intend to be the natural selective pressure to make my piece of dirt a poor enviroment for those species.  It is not only the risk of that individual snake that I might run into again later under less fortunate circumstances, but thats also one less breeder that might crawl under the nice shadey spot under one of my buildings and lay 1000 eggs. 

Sorry.  On my property, those species get culled with extreme prejudice.

,
Wab

Obviously you're doing a great job.  So incredibly great, you almost stepped on one. 

Even if you do manage to "cull with extreme prejudice" with any bit of effectiveness (improbable, at best), all you end up doing is making a 15 acre "island of prosperity" for rats and mice, which are both much more dangerous to you and your family than venomous snakes from the disease vectors they are plagued with.

As well,  Rattlers hardly ever strike without warning in self defense (though not always), unless you've already picked them up.  How hard is it to just teach folks not to act like morons when they hear that rattle?  Yeah, you're right, just easier to kill anything than to teach....it's the American way.

In any case, your property= your premise. 

Rattlesnakes also don't lay 1000 eggs.  They are livebearers.  Again, LEARN....and don't make your property attractive to them.  Killing them singly does exactly the opposite, because it raises the prey population, which brings more in.  All you're doing is playing whack a mole.

If you have a huge snake infestation, then you have a huge rodent problem, and you might want to look at that....

[FiLtH]

  I went to the Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup once and ate rattlesnake. People who say it tastes like chicken have no tastebuds. Just because you deepfry it doesnt mean its good.

[CptTrips]

Obviously you're doing a great job.  So incredibly great, you almost stepped on one. 

Even if you do manage to "cull with extreme prejudice" with any bit of effectiveness (improbable, at best), all you end up doing is making a 15 acre "island of prosperity" for rats and mice, which are both much more dangerous to you and your family than venomous snakes from the disease vectors they are plagued with.

As well,  Rattlers hardly ever strike without warning in self defense (though not always), unless you've already picked them up.  How hard is it to just teach folks not to act like morons when they hear that rattle?  Yeah, you're right, just easier to kill anything than to teach....it's the American way.

In any case, your property= your premise. 

Rattlesnakes also don't lay 1000 eggs.  They are livebearers.  Again, learn....and don't make your property attractive to them.  Killing them does exactly the opposite, because it raises the prey population, which brings more in.  All you're doing is playing whack a mole.

Actually I run into only about one a year that I see.

There are plenty on non-poisonous snake that eat mice too.  As I already stated, I leave non-poisonous species alone.

Actually this one didn't rattle, I think because its was so immediately startled.  It just tensed up int its coil ready to strike.  I was very lucky to have seen it in time.

Never-the-less, you at least got the 2nd to last part right (about my property).

Wab

[Shuffler]

Saxman,

I respectfully disagree.  However, I will refine my statement somewhat.  I will kill any poisonous snake I see...on my property.  If I was hiking out in the Grand Canyon and saw one off the trail, I wouldn't worry about it.

I have to move around and work on this 15 acre.  I have friends and family with children that visit and play around and let their dogs wander.  I have guest that come set up their telescopes and are moving around at night without lights.

I intend to keep the population of poisonous snakes on my property to the absolute minimum.  I intend to be the natural selective pressure to make my piece of dirt a poor enviroment for those species.  It is not only the risk of that individual snake that I might run into again later under less fortunate circumstances, but thats also one less breeder that might crawl under the nice shadey spot under one of my buildings and lay 1000 eggs. 

Sorry.  On my property, those species get culled with extreme prejudice.

,
Wab

I have an idea... anyone wishing to protect these reptiles can post their address and folks can mail the reptiles found on their property to your sanctuary. Win win situation. 

[CptTrips]

I have an idea... anyone wishing to protect these reptiles can post their address and folks can mail the reptiles found on their property to your sanctuary. Win win situation. 

Lol.   

Next thing you know, he's going to want to protect fire-ants and mosquitos. 
Wab

[Saxman]

Wabbit,

Then again, it's not hard to take the proper precautions if you're somewhere you know there's a chance of running into a snake. You're naive to think that just because you only SEE one a year, that there's ONLY one. There could be dozens on your property and you wouldn't even know it.

Moray,

One of the worst things I saw was at summer camp once in Boy Scouts. Someone caught a Timber Rattler at the camp and they had it in a cage where the Reptile Study merit badge course was being held. Kids were provoking it and banging on the tank JUST to make it rattle and strike the glass. Morons. Would have served them right if they WOULD have gotten bit.

[Anaxogoras]

Meh, he's just approaching it from the perspective of a biologist, not a property owner.  From that perspective, there are no "undesirable" animals; even mosquitoes and fire ants have a role to play.  This is what is taught in elementary schools across the nation, and its usually part of 4th grade science standards in many states.

Here's a funny example.  My wife is really into gardening, and there are a couple wasp nests in our back yard.  I was going to get rid of them, but she said under no circumstances should I do so because wasps prey on vegetable pests.

[CptTrips]

Here's a funny example.  My wife is really into gardening, and there are a couple wasp nests in our back yard.  I was going to get rid of them, but she said under no circumstances should I do so because wasps prey on vegetable pests.

They occationally prey on gardeners too I hear. 

Wab

[MORAY37]

Meh, he's just approaching it from the perspective of a biologist, not a property owner.  From that perspective, there are no "undesirable" animals; even mosquitoes and fire ants have a role to play.  This is what is taught in elementary schools across the nation, and its usually part of 4th grade science standards in many states.

Here's a funny example.  My wife is really into gardening, and there are a couple wasp nests in our back yard.  I was going to get rid of them, but she said under no circumstances should I do so because wasps prey on vegetable pests.

Not Fire Ants.  Horribly invasive, and have no natural enemies in the United States.  There is some promise in the Phorid Fly in combating fire ants, but I've yet to read a detailed environmental impact statement on its' own controllability in habitat. 

Although, given a few million years, something will evolve that takes advantage of them as a food source.

[noTch]

Now before the PETA tards jump on me, I don't just go around killing every snake I see.  If I don't recognize the kind of snake, I'll just shoo it away.  But if its a rattle, or copperhead, or cottonmouth, its dead on sight.  No debate.

 ,
Wab

This is what I think of Peta

[SIM]

The ONLY good snake is a DEAD snake..........

Dont like that idea? Round them up and keep them at your place........I dont want them on mine.

Peta idiots love giving excuses for why not to kill an animal, when are they going to explain to animals that they have rights in the food chain? I'd really like to see one of these animal loving activists sit with a lions pride and explain the rules..............How about in a snake den explaining natural selection?????

[MORAY37]

The ONLY good snake is a DEAD snake..........

Dont like that idea? Round them up and keep them at your place........I dont want them on mine.

Peta idiots love giving excuses for why not to kill an animal, when are they going to explain to animals that they have rights in the food chain? I'd really like to see one of these animal loving activists sit with a lions pride and explain the rules..............How about in a snake den explaining natural selection?????

It's not about PETA....it's about being logical.  We're not talking about a Black Mamba here.  It's a Rattlesnake.  Unless you totally surprise it, it's going to run, FAST.  The bigger threat to human habitat historically, is from an over abundance of rodents which carry disease vectors, such as the fleas that carried the plague.  There are quite a few other diseases they pack with them, and anything that controls their population around my home is more than welcome.
   The rat-borne hantaviruses , Puumala virus, Dobrava virus, Saaremaa virus, Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus, Bacterial diseases, Rat bite fever, Rodent-borne salmonellosis, Protozoal diseases, Rodent-borne cestode infections, Rodent-borne nematode infections are all more likely to kill you than a single rattlesnake bite. 
        
I live in Florida, and have rattlesnakes (two types, Timber and Mississauga) and aggressive black racers (non venomous, but will stand up to anything aggressively) on my porch sunning pretty much daily.  I haven't seen a rodent on the property in years.   Open the inside glass door with the screen closed and stomp a bit, and they move on.  When I'm outside I shuffle my feet and take care of the property to limit blind hiding areas.

How tough,to be responsible and logical at the same time, without the patented american knee jerk reaction.

[Saxman]

It's not about PETA....it's about being logical.  We're not talking about a Black Mamba here.  It's a Rattlesnake.  Unless you totally surprise it, it's going to run, FAST.  The bigger threat to human habitat historically, is from an over abundance of rodents which carry disease vectors, such as the fleas that carried the plague.  There are quite a few other diseases they pack with them, and anything that controls their population around my home is more than welcome.
   The rat-borne hantaviruses , Puumala virus, Dobrava virus, Saaremaa virus, Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus, Bacterial diseases, Rat bite fever, Rodent-borne salmonellosis, Protozoal diseases, Rodent-borne cestode infections, Rodent-borne nematode infections are all more likely to kill you than a single rattlesnake bite. 
        
I live in Florida, and have rattlesnakes (two types, Timber and Mississauga) and aggressive black racers (non venomous, but will stand up to anything aggressively) on my porch sunning pretty much daily.  I haven't seen a rodent on the property in years.   Open the inside glass door with the screen closed and stomp a bit, and they move on.  When I'm outside I shuffle my feet and take care of the property to limit blind hiding areas.

How tough,to be responsible and logical at the same time, without the patented american knee jerk reaction.

That's really the point: If you take the proper precautions you can limit if not outright eliminate the chance of an unfortunate encounter without having to resort to killing the animal, which frankly is to the benefit of you BOTH. I'm not saying you can't take action to defend yourself if you walk into trouble unexpectedly, but all it takes is a bit of foresight and planning and you won't even be IN that situation (that's a BIG error of human arrogance, to assume that just because we're supposed to be smarter that nature has to adhere to OUR rules. Sorry, nature can crush you like a bug in an instant if it wants to). There's things you can do with woodpiles and brush to make them less attractive hiding places for snakes (stack your firewood off the ground, for one, I believe there's racks out there just for that purpose or you can build one yourself. Rattlers don't climb very well. And maintain your property to eliminate overgrown vegetation and brush piles, which provide homes both for snakes and the prey they're after). Step on top of logs, not over them. If you're going to be messing around with a potential hiding place for a snake, wear a good pair of heavy work gloves and boots.

[FireDrgn]

So when the rattle snake bites and kills someone its just natural selection? How do you explain to the rattle snake that you were just living in Harmony?

You know dang well if you let rattle snakes live in your back yard at some point someone is going to get bit.

I think its a complete contradiction that its ok to let the snake kill the rats.  But not logical to kill the snake.  The rats have to be dealt with by death because they are deadly and thats ok ?  the snakes are deadly but are not to be dealt with by death?

How did rats get so far down the list?

Its clear that were just seeing a logical theory here and not a moral one.  But logic wont work when you start asking questions.