Which of these planes do you prefer to fly?? -- PIC

[Wmaker]

That aircraft was purchased by another entity and is not undergoing a restoration to fly.

AFAIK the goal of the most recent restoration which was completed in 2004 was to bring the plane to flying condition. It just haven't been flown.

[Bodhi]

AFAIK the goal of the most recent restoration which was completed in 2004 was to bring the plane to flying condition. It just haven't been flown.

It is not in flying condition nor does the current owner intend for it to fly.  It can and does run, but will not fly in it's current state.

[Tilt]

The 190 is a Flugwerke built replica with a Russian built engine.  The only original 190 part on it is the tail wheel

Yup its an FW body with a Lavochkin heart. The engine is a latter day version of the Ash 82 FN.

[Wmaker]

It is not in flying condition nor does the current owner intend for it to fly.  It can and does run, but will not fly in it's current state.

"With so few Fw 190s still in existence and none currently flying, it is heartening to see that the restoration of Doug Champlin's ultra-rare Fw 190D-13 to airworthy condition is well under way."

"Although Champlin's Fw 190 will be restored to airworthiness, it will not be flown. "The one thing that was holding this plane back from flying was the prop hub. As it was, the engine could be run, but the prop was fixed pitch. We'll substitute a D-9 hub so that the engine can be run to full power and the prop pitch can be changed." Some of the fiberglass items that had been added to represent a complete airframe have been reproduced in metal. The vertical tail's leading edge and some fuselage doors have been reproduced to German specifications and are operated by one locking fastener in the middle of each plate. New, bulging cannon breaches have been made, and there will be copies for the Air Force's Focke-Wulf to improve its appearance."

Source: Focke-Wulf 190D restoration on Flight Journal's June 2002 issue

[Bodhi]

Believe what you like Wmaker, it's not as though I know what I am talking about.   

BTW, Champlain does not own the aircraft, nor has he for a couple of years.

[Wmaker]

Believe what you like Wmaker, it's not as though I know what I am talking about.   

Hmm...why do you have to act like that? If you have some better info on the restoration why can't you just share it instead of rolling eyes? Are you saying that Mr. Champlin, Goshawk Aviation and that particular reporter all lied?

BTW, Champlain does not own the aircraft, nor has he for a couple of years.

Yep, doesn't revert the restoration that was done on the aircraft while he still owned it, though.

[Bodhi]

Wmaker,
It was not coming off on anything.  You cut and pasted something as though it refuted it.  Several of the warbird magazines are full of misquotes, lies, and outright fabrications.  Why?  Because it sells.  I could point to many issues in the last five years, but choose not to because I do not need another character assassination attempt from an editor that we went around with several years back that cost far too much in legal fees to get damage undone.

As for the D-13, we did not restore that aircraft, but know most involved in it, and their words are that it was not intended to fly otherwise several issues would have been addressed.  Further backing this up was the new owner inquiring as to an estimate of the cost of making it fly with another restoration source.

Again, as I said before, believe what you like, I am tired of the cut and paste mentality of seemingly "proving" a point.

[Wmaker]

You cut and pasted something as though it refuted it.

Actually, I didn't think either way. I just wanted to show you one of the sources that had given me such an idea. And after that I was hoping you would tell me your view of the matter. It just seems that, with you, there's usually at least one post of eye rolling and attitude before you can decent down to among us mere mortals who aren't airplane repair men and tell how things really are.

Again, as I said before, believe what you like, I am tired of the cut and paste mentality of seemingly "proving" a point.

Yep, I'll do just that and I guess I just have to believe that Mr.Champlin and Mr.Crandall are telling the truth instead of you.

Jerry Crandall:
Thanks for your nice comments and encouragement on the D-13 project. It is a lot of work! It is over 100 degrees F inside the building where we are working. We have only been here for four days!

Let me give you some brief background information...the D-13 was originally restored in the early 70s to the best of their ability at the time. A lot of systems and details were improvised due to the lack of original parts and capabilities of the restoration facility at that time. In January 2001 Doug Champlin gave the go ahead to Dave Goss and his team at GossHawk Unlimited facility in Mesa to tear it all apart and start over, doing it 100% right! It has been a very expensive proposition, searching the world over for the correct parts and details such as latches, pumps, parts for the engine, and a lot of ther things that needed to be replaced and/or remanufactured.

Some parts are still missing, such as the correct propeller hub that would have the hole in it for the cannon blast tube. No one has been able to find one in all these years, so the existing hub actually belongs to a D-9, which is a solid type. The fueslage has been re-skinned, at least partially. The Belly pan that originally was wood on the D-13 has been replaced with a metal panel for preservation reasons; however, some of the other fuselage panels have been correctly re-fabricated in a plywood as were the landing flaps.

Doug was very concerned to correctly match the color and luster of the new paint job, and make sure it was not overall glossy like the first restoration. The paint is an automobile acrylic paint that has a hardening agent. Each one of the colors, such as RLM 76, RLM 82 and RLM 75, RLM 83 were produced in such a way as to match the luster of the original paint. RLM 82 has a little more luster than RLM 83 and so on. AS a result, it will not be glossy like most museum restorations. The overall luster will be a semi-mat or egg shell just like the original paint.

The national markings - "Yellow 10" and the stab markings look beautiful and accurate. I was delighted today that I was able to add the word "Kommodore" to the lower radiator cowling. My first inclination was to make it more professional looking, but as we studied the photos and enhanced them by computer, we realized the word was crudely applied and all the circular letters were filled in with black.

Doug does not want to fly the a/c as long as he owns it. In fact he directed that the engine be sealed up and that no fuel should be put into the system due to long term anti corrosion prevention. Therefore he will not even allow the engine to be started at all.

Tomorrow we apply the little bit of stenciling that we think was showing through the camouflage paint and it will be pretty much finished except for the installation of the canopy and the propeller with spinner. The interior and fuel system is still not complete but it will be in the next few months.

As I was working on this a/c today, I felt I was doing it on behalf of all modelers and enthusiasts throughout the world...I only wished we could have all been together to experience this occasion together.

Cordially,
Jerry
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23015

[wgmount]

just to get my 2 cents in on the Champlin Fw190-D13 http://www.gosshawkunlimited.com/restoredaircraft/fw190d/fw190dhistory.htm   The D13 is now located at the Seattle Museum of Flight   

[wgmount]

I apologize I posted wrong. The Fw190-D13 did not go to the Seattle Museum of Flight when it bought the Champlin Museum in 2000. It is in Paul Allen's  Flying Heritage Collection. It will fly, although, it is such a rare example that the risk of crash is too great. http://www.flyingheritage.com/

My apologies
Flushed on AH2

[BrownBaron]

Not originals, nor are they the bastard children of originals...not sure why they need those swastickas, but whatever...

[Bodhi]

FYI, from the owner's website.

This airplane has been restored close to flyable condition, but it will not be flown because it is such a rare example of the Fw 190 line.

http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplateHome.aspx?planeId=4


If you will look closely at the freaking quote, you will see the words This airplane has been restored close to flyable condition.  It is not a flyable aircraft, nor was it intended to fly again.

[Wmaker]

Yep, I visited that page yesterday aswell. But Bodhi, isn't it you who's now cut-pasting to prove a point?

Bodhi,

usvi mentioned this particular 190 in the page two of this thread:

Here is one it's a FW 190d-13.
(Image removed from quote.)

...to which you replied...

That aircraft was purchased by another entity and is not undergoing a restoration to fly.

From this post of yours, at least I got the impression that there would be a need for another "ground-up" restoration to get it to flying condition. Because I had read that it was already finnished to flyable status, I posted...

AFAIK the goal of the most recent restoration which was completed in 2004 was to bring the plane to flying condition. It just haven't been flown.

I don't know but considering the "close to flyable condition" -comment, I'm guessing it doesn't need "a restoration to fly" based on the restoration that it already gone through 2002-2004. Bodhi, if you've seen the inquiry regarding the cost to get it to flying condition you'll probably know what it would take but I'm guessing you can't disclose such information from such an inquiry. Would be really interesting to know. I just might shoot an e-mail Flying Heritage and ask about this. All in all, it seems that "the flyable status" for a warbird like this seems to be somewhat subjective term. Of course, after 5 years sitting still an aircraft would require quite a few checks before flying, especially an aircraft of this complexity.

Another "cut 'n paste" (this is where I read about it first):

Goss and Champlin expect to be finished with the airplane early next year. Although the fighter will be perfectly flyable, Champlin says that as long as he owns it, Yellow 10 will remain earthbound. “It’s just too rare,” he says. “We’ll start it up and taxi it, but that’s all we’re gonna do. It’d just be criminal to fly it.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200206/ai_n9113861/

(The above quote is dated before that Crandall's quote on my previous post. I guess Champlin's mind changed regarding running the engine.)

[Bodhi]

Wmaker,
What really gets me, was that in trying to be nice and pass on some information that was not being recorded correctly by a variety of sources, I get told I am wrong regarding information I KNOW to be correct.  That's just plain and simply wrong.   My point of trying to pass the information on was one of being kind and passing on a bit of "inside" info that was passed through the community to me, by friends in our business.  Instead, imho, I get confronted by someone, who in a very uppity manner, incorrectly tries to correct me by quoting a news article. 

I really meant what I said wmaker.  I do not care whether you believe me or not.  What I do take issue with is the manner in which you feel you are going to swipe my statement aside without ever having been involved in this business.  That's why, I am taking this stand.

[Die Hard]