Poor B17

[Unit791]

It isn't centered at you at all, I'm sorry. Just in general for that first page.

Well yeah, I see where you're coming from, but seriously, did you expect every single following post to be composed of <S> and <S> and <S> and <S>?

[Ack-Ack]

I remember reading that the 8th lost more men than the US Marines lost in the pacific. Is that true?

63tb

8th Air Force Combat Losses in Europe was heavy. Crews had a higher percentage of being killed, wounded or captured while flying in the 8th AF than if they were in the infantry in the front line. Like all statistics, this fact is high when you compare the 8th AF losses against all personnel in the units that were considered "in combat." In actuality, it was even higher if you only count the front line regiment combat personnel and not the whole division. A US division was 16,000 or so personnel with only 3,600 being the front line infantry combat troops - all the others were support personnel.

The 8th AF suffered more than 42,000 casualties out of which over 26,000 were killed.  The 8th AF casualties amounted to half of all USAAF casualties in World War II.  This doesn't take into account the casualties suffered by the 9th, 11th, and 15th Air Forces.  Also to put the number of casualties in more of a perspective, 135,000 men flew combat missions in the 8th AF during the war.

As wounded Staff Sgt. John Hill was helped from his B-17 bomber after a raid on Jan. 13, 1943, the commander of the 305th Bomb Group, Col. Curtis LeMay came up and said:

"Don't worry, that bullet didn't have your name on it."

"No," replied Hill, "but it had 'To whom it may concern' on it."

The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner
From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

-- Randall Jarrell

ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

Looked like an AFK attack to me.

German must have been highly frustrated at being unable to bring down an empty bomber, clearly seperated from from formation, at such close range.

Lazy tail and ball gunner.  Just sat there watch the 110 shooting at them.

I feel for the guys that were there...but I get more hits than that guy did and still get popped by the rear guns.

All three of these posts are beyond sickening.   But not surprising, considering the need "for the shock value".   

[Anaxogoras]

I am pleasantly surprised not to see this post turn into a flame war.  Posts like this have done just that in the past.  War footage includes many, many casualties, both military and civilian, so I'm glad to see that we can discuss it without getting upset over one particular piece of footage.

All three of these posts are beyond sickening.   But not surprising, considering the need "for the shock value".   

Yes they are, but let's not give them the attention they crave.

[CAP1]

I am pleasantly surprised not to see this post turn into a flame war.  Posts like this have done just that in the past.  War footage includes many, many casualties, both military and civilian, so I'm glad to see that we can discuss it without getting upset over one particular piece of footage.

Yes they are, but let's not give them the attention they crave.

in the air in the real war, there are no bad guys, and good guy. there were just a bunch of kids with the responsibility of the world placed on their shoulders, doing whatever they could to survive.

[John Curnutte]

 I could not imagine having viewed the film that anyone would not be moved by it . And after a little time had passed I wonder if the 110 pilot had seen it , not picking a side or being derogatory here but like CAP has pointed out its young men doing what they were ordered to do . Both sides of this has feelings on it I'm sure . The crew in the B-17 as its under a terrible attack and the stark terror they face  , 110 pilot firing his guns and doing his job , defending his homeland and almost certainly ending someones life . This is tragic all the way around and there is no joke to it.
                      Nutte
                                                                     

[Guppy35]

late to the party but a better bet is that the gunners have already left the 17.  The ball turret pointed down like that means it's got the hatch inside the fuselage so the gunner can get out inside the plane. 

The 17 already looked damaged, and it wasn't uncommon for crew to get out while they still had a chance.  One unlucky hit and that bird is spinning and there is no chance.

[rabbidrabbit]

I hosted a wedding at our house for some friends last year and as it turns out, her grandfather was a b-17 pilot who was shot down in much the same manner.  The bird was shot up and they were bailing out while getting shot up from another attack.  I think 3 never made it out in his case.  He told me the story of another guy who jumped out only to be met with a streamer.  He climbed up the streamer to untangle it while plummeting down and slipped.  He climbed back up and finally got the chute to open, fell off it as it did and swung out, back, then hit the ground.  He told her grandfather that if he ever looked down for even a second he never would have opened the chute.  This was told to him as they awaited their ride to prison camp after being picked on bailing.   

late to the party but a better bet is that the gunners have already left the 17.  The ball turret pointed down like that means it's got the hatch inside the fuselage so the gunner can get out inside the plane. 

The 17 already looked damaged, and it wasn't uncommon for crew to get out while they still had a chance.  One unlucky hit and that bird is spinning and there is no chance.

[CAP1]

here's a link to the mighty eigth's website.



http://www.mightyeighth.org/

[Die Hard]

Listen to 8 minutes of a ball turret gunner who survived:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRWrAP_b3vY

His view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvuChgh4fGg&feature=fvw