Author Topic: Remove Perks from C-Hog  (Read 3016 times)

Offline mtnman

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2009, 04:59:31 PM »
Quite a ways from the initial topic I suppose, but interesting.  I tend to agree that a well-flown 152 using the vertical would be more than a match for the -1A, but I would like to see the theory tested.

I know when I find a pony who conscientiosly retains his E there isn't a whole lot I can do except entice him to follow me into a rolling scissors.

I'm worthless as a tester right now myself, I can hardly sit in front of the computer, I'm all doped up (abdominal surgery), and my computer isn't doing so hot.  Hopefully all those factors will be gone in a week or two, hehe!
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Offline moot

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2009, 06:32:19 PM »
Cool :)  Two weeks it is :D
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2009, 07:12:13 PM »
My main point of contention is whether that one factor--the vertical--makes the 152 as superior as moot says, when most of the other characteristics are more or less equal (top speed, with a very slim advantage towards the 152 in acceleration) or are more favorable towards the 1A (maneuverability at both low AND high speeds, sight picture, gun ballistics). Especially considering that even if not quite that good, the F4U plays the E retention game very well itself. The 152 has a VERY narrow margin for error while the 1A has many more options at its disposal. It would be MUCH more accurate to say the 152 is superior in that type of fight.

That's why the Ki-84 is the one plane in the game that REALLY concerns me when I'm flying a 1A. The Ki matches extremely well with the 1A leaving a very slim margin for error, as the only clear advantage for the 1A is high-speed maneuverability. I don't like having to deal with Franks at co-alt and E. They're messy.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 07:20:21 PM by Saxman »
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Offline moot

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2009, 07:26:01 PM »
No.. E retention in maneuvering is definitely better in the 152 and IMO it's at least as good and important as vertical performance. Combine that with the ability to make killshots with just 1 bullet and you have a plane that can afford to use absolutely no energy to make (track during) its shots.  Only fly the ACM and stab the trigger at the right time.

From the start the premise was on potential.. Like I said, the 51, while very marginally being worse than the 152 in absolute potential, is much better in real world conditions where the imperfect non-zen pilot doesn't know the plane like the back of his hand and makes mistakes, etc.  The point of contention that led to this 1A-152 comparison was how some planes were only potentially perk worthy, and how that was a good demonstration of why pure potential wasn't a comprehensive enough criteria for ENY.  The 152 is definitely a good example.
But I maintain the tangent that flown at 100%, the 152 beats a 1A also at 100%.  We're talking about the planes, not the pilots.

It's not just that the 152 is superior "in that type of fight"*.  It's that the 152 is superior in the MA, and consequentially lower on the ENY scale.  The 152 is probably more of an 8-10 ENY plane, but the 1A certainly isn't.  That's the perspective of the argument.

*That was why I made that "apples and oranges" comparison, with the 262.  Why would the 262 be considered lesser to any prop because it doesn't turn or accelerate as well at lower speeds, when it can clinch a win or make the other guy forfeit by staying fast?  The 152 can do as much with the 1A (I've never had any trouble with 1As in the MA when I (admittedly not that often) fly "unfair".. never. Only the -4 can really keep up).  Whether in a 1:1 vs the 1A, or in the MA furballs, that means the 152 is definitely better.  Maybe not by much on paper, but in practice it's a significant difference.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 07:35:32 PM by moot »
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #94 on: August 25, 2009, 10:32:58 AM »
Not the point of the argument, but keep in mind I never specified low-speed turning ability. Never even said flaps, either. Interesting mindset people have about the Corsair that they immediately assume all they're going to do is dump speed to go to flaps.

I wouldnt state that I have a mindset of flaps out turn fighting with the F4U's because I used that as an example. 

Im not ragging on your plane of choice.  I love Corsairs.  Its my favorite allied plane and Ill usually end each tour with more than a handful of F4U4 sorties.  Its vertical performance is awesome - which is how I fly - but its still not quite up to the level of the 152 in that particular area.

In all other areas - yeah, Ill take the Corsair - but the 152 has it where it counts.  Thats why I believe it to be superior to the (non -4) F4U's.  If a plane has command of the vertical, nothing else matters.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 10:35:42 AM by Saurdaukar »

Offline moot

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #95 on: August 25, 2009, 10:37:17 AM »
The 152 is simply a better killing machine.
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Offline Squire

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #96 on: August 25, 2009, 01:04:22 PM »
Unperk the C-Hog, but perk the Spit 16.

One step forward, and one step back.

I guess that passes as progress lately.  :huh
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #97 on: August 25, 2009, 02:08:06 PM »
Unperk the C-Hog, but perk the Spit 16.

One step forward, and one step back.

I guess that passes as progress lately.  :huh
Except, you know, the Spit XVI is not nearly the imbalancing factor that the F4U-1C is, so it would be more like one step back and another ten steps back as well.
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Offline sandwich

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Re: Remove Perks from C-Hog
« Reply #98 on: August 25, 2009, 02:15:55 PM »
I can has -4 hog?  :pray