September FSO: Northern Star: Leningrad Front Spring 1942

[Squire]

I have several books on Lend Lease VVS fighters, there were P-40Es in 1942, there were Hurricane IIs of various types 1941-2, some were converted with the 23mm and 12.7mm, some were IICs, some were IIBs. They were not just flown by the RAF 151 Wing. The Finns reported fighting them in the Leningrad region.

The P-39 version was not just the Q version. They received the Airacobra I (ex RAF), P-39D-1, D-2, P-39L/N/Q from 1942-44.

There was no AP ammo for the 37mm gun in any version of the P-39 in WW2. 

That being said the region and the timeline planeset is stretched somewhat to fit the event. The biggest problem was pitting the I-16 vs an axis plane set. We cant do Russia mid 1941, because there are no Lend Lease ac present at all, which just leaves the I-16 and the IL-2. So the date has to be moved up. The map is a generic map of the Eastern Front, not an exacting duplication of an area. When we get Karelia up again, we can have a more precise region hopefully. Its representing the Nothern area mostly to include the Finns and the B-239 in the set, since thats the only area the Finns operated.

Strictly speaking, the plane set is authentic, but the ratios had to be adjusted to make it workable. So we have P-40/P-39/Hurricane vs 109F/B-239/110 as they "good" fighters, and the 109E and the I-16 as the "baseline" fighters. With the 109E as the better of the two.

[Anaxogoras]

With the 109E as the better of the two.

You're going to have to revise that opinion after this event is over.

The 109E may be faster, but check this out:

[Squire]

I would consider it the better of the two if the 109E is allowed to roam in its element. Not below 5k in a TB fight, where obviously the I-16 will love to be. Of course, many other variables will come to play on any engagement. I think they are a good matchup, in any case.

[gyrene81]

Squire, thank you for the clarification on the time line for this event. If the event is indeed depicting the time line between 1941 to 1943/44 then you should at least include the 190A-5 as the 190's appeared on the front lines near Leningrad in 1942. It is well documented that several Russian squadrons encountered 190s over the skies around Leningrad. I believe it was JG-54 in early 1943 that first got the 190s.

I know it's pretty late for such a discussion and normally the plane sets are as accurate as AH allows. As things sit with this event and the current plane sets, with no FW190s the timeline would be around winter 1941 to fall 1942...which precludes the Hurricane MkIID, P-40E, and P-39Q.


I'm not worried about "balance" if that's a question...balance doesn't belong in historical recreations.


As for the 37mm AP ammunition...look up the M80 standard armor piercing round that was developed specifically for the M4 37mm.

[Easyscor]

I'm not worried about "balance" if that's a question...balance doesn't belong in historical recreations.

I think you're missing the point of Special Events. "Historical Recreations" belong in the park on a Sunday afternoon with everyone dressing up in uniforms and marching around until they drop to the ground and play dead.

Special events in AH are historically framed setups which allow both side equal chances of winning, surviving and fun.

[WxMan]

I'm not worried about "balance" if that's a question...balance doesn't belong in historical recreations.

FSO's in my opinion have never been "historical" recreations. If they were, we would following battle plans of some general/admiral of the era, with one side probably using overwhelming force in the initial attack.  

Not much fun there.

FSO's have always been about gameplay/fun, in other words balance.

In most cases each side starts out with historical (as much as possible) and for the most part equal resources. It is up to each CiC to plan and allocate these resources. This then filters down to the effectiveness and the ingenuity of each squadron, and finally the ability of each pilot. Much like it did during the real thing. This is perhaps as close as we come to a historical recreation.

[gyrene81]

Special events in AH are historically framed setups which allow both side equal chances of winning, surviving and fun.

Personally, if a person can't have fun without "balance"...fly a kite. The challenge of trying to beat those overwhelming odds should be the "fun factor"...unless you just don't like a challenge.

If balance is a determining factor, why even consider the equipment? Just take enable a couple of aircraft types, 1 fighter, 1 bomber, split the number of participants in half, give them targets and tell them they have an hour to get the job done...that's balance.

[Easyscor]

That may be your idea of fun, but when we design special events, we keep in mind that most players won't want to fly "targets" so everyone else can score kills. It's hard enough recruiting participants to some events without such handicaps and FSO is no different.

[Anaxogoras]

Gyrene, how would you setup the next scenario (Eastern front '45).  Would you have 10 players flying for the Russians for every player flying for the Lufwaffe?  Truly historical numbers in an event like that would mean most VVS pilots wouldn't even see an enemy the entire 3 hour frame.

[gyrene81]

Gyrene, how would you setup the next scenario (Eastern front '45).  Would you have 10 players flying for the Russians for every player flying for the Lufwaffe?  Truly historical numbers in an event like that would mean most VVS pilots wouldn't even see an enemy the entire 3 hour frame.

That's a really good question. The division of the number of players is a non-issue here since participating squads have picked a side to be on...just comes down to who shows up on fight night...if one side is outnumbered due to a lack of attendance, that's on them. Setting these things up with a "fun factor" for the arcade toon pile-its has to be a small nightmare...but in the long run it's worth it from a community standpoint.

If you want to use the Eastern front December 1944 to April 1945 for a timeline then you would find the sides fairly equal at the outset...with the Luftwaffe losing the most air and ground assets in the end just because they were fighting on too many fronts and losing their best people.

[Anaxogoras]

In FSO it's very possible not to get assigned to your side of preference, especially in PTO when most seem to want to fly Allied.  We end up with balanced numbers because the FSO team assigns squads that way.

I think unhistorical side balancing is necessary just so that everyone has a chance for combat.  I've flown in scenarios before where I spent two hours flying in circles waiting for the enemy to attack.  It's historical, it's realistic, but it's very, very boring.  FSO is a great event because you're almost guaranteed an opportunity for combat in the first hour.

[Easyscor]

The division of the number of players is a non-issue here since participating squads have picked a side to be on

That's not the way it works, the Admin CM assigns the squads to a side.

[gyrene81]

I think unhistorical side balancing is necessary just so that everyone has a chance for combat. 

Yeah, very true...agreed.

My big objection to the balance thing is that I find people tend to use it as a crutch...or an excuse for poor execution and use of available resources. You know what I'm talking about, it's those people who don't like or can't handle a challenge...and are the first to yell about "balance" in some manner.

[Squire]

There were no Bf 109Gs (of any kind) in the spring of 1942, there were no Fw190A-5s either. The plane set is balanced, and is based on the OOB for the time period.  You seriously think im going to pit I-16s vs a fighter thats 100 mph faster?

Its an early 42 setup on the Northern Front.

We did an EF setup (one of my designs) called "Dogs of War", that was Fall 1943, and had those a/c. Next time, in all likelyhood, the next EF setup will be a 1944-45 setup and you can fly a late war LW ride then.

[gyrene81]

There were no Bf 109Gs (of any kind) in the spring of 1942, there were no Fw190A-5s either. The plane set is balanced, and is based on the OOB for the time period.  You seriously think im going to pit I-16s vs a fighter thats 100 mph faster?

Its an early 42 setup on the Northern Front.

We did an EF setup (one of my designs) called "Dogs of War", that was Fall 1943, and had those a/c. Next time, in all likelyhood, the next EF setup will be a 1944-45 setup and you can fly a late war LW ride then.

Ok so "early 1942" spring to be exact. There were no Hurricane MkIIc's there then either.

Look up No. 151 Wing RAF...started out with 24 Hurricane MkIIb's in August 1941 then received another 15 in October (?) 1941...the RAF ceased operations and handed over all of the remaining Hurricane MkIIb's to the Soviets in October 1941. That was it because by 1942 the Soviets had started building their own superior aircraft and didn't want any more Hurricanes.