Author Topic: proof p-51 is undermodeled...  (Read 2243 times)

Offline SectorNine50

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1331
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2008, 06:14:32 PM »
Except it looks like he pulled up instead of pushing forward.  Pretty neat little move, might have to give it a try!  Can definately see why the pilot in THC's Dogfight show said that his head hit the canopy! :aok
I'm Sector95 in-game! :-D

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4132
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2008, 06:27:06 PM »
what the hell kinda move was that.
that was so sweet... WOW  :aok
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline dtango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1702
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2008, 06:35:31 PM »
It's exactly the same as I did.... Stick forward to the left, full right rudder.


My regards,

Widewing

Well I execute the flat plate differently.  It's also more involved than that for me.  :)

Anax - I haven't even explained it to my own squaddies so I owe them the explanation first.  I'll give you a hint though: if you study the concepts of aircraft stability carefully it'll become obvious the type of forces being applied on the aircraft to make it do what I did.  No smoke and mirrors.  Just physics at work :).

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Tango / Tango412 412th FS Braunco Mustangs
"At times it seems like people think they can chuck bunch of anecdotes into some converter which comes up with the flight model." (Wmaker)

Offline dtango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1702
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2008, 07:16:39 PM »
Anax: let me just add that there's actually another reason I haven't explained the maneuver.  It has nothing to do with withholding info because I think I'm more skilled or something and that it would give up an advantage.  In all honesty I think I suck :D.

It has everything to do with idea that there aren't any silver bullets in learning sound air combat maneuvers and tactics.  This maneuver is kind of cool but really it has limited usage in air combat.  Air combat learning isn't about trying to collect a bunch of trick maneuvers and I wouldn't want to promote that type of thinking at all! 

No sir, I believe much more important and much more helpful for folks is to study and truly understand other key concepts like corner velocity, when to use nose-to-nose vs. nose-to-tail turns, creating separation for maneuver etc.  The list goes on.  People don't learn these things by collecting trick moves.  There's no substitute.  Instead people should spend time with the good folks Like Murdr, Widewing, TC, Spatula, et al that are part of the AH training corps who help people and day in and day out understand and apply these concepts.

Thanks for allowing me to get on my soap box a bit on the topic!

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Tango / Tango412 412th FS Braunco Mustangs
"At times it seems like people think they can chuck bunch of anecdotes into some converter which comes up with the flight model." (Wmaker)

Offline doleboy

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 192
      • mushrooms
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2008, 07:56:32 PM »
shane you idiotic queef. why belittle the p51 when it is clearly one of the best planes in the game?
We shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be.

Offline Anaxogoras

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7072
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2008, 08:16:37 PM »
I can ape widewing's maneuver without too much trouble offline.  I can't do what dtango did there.
gavagai
334th FS


RPS for Aces High!

Offline Mr Blue

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2008, 08:44:46 PM »
who am i to argue?  still... awesome move @ 2:26...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8&feature=related

 :noid




Wow.. after seeing that movie my jaw dropped and i peed in my pants..
very cool..
Just for fun

Offline crockett

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3420
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2008, 10:11:41 AM »

Great film....for some reason I really wanted that 109 pilot to survive and make a successful run for it.

In the end, I realize of course, he was much to dangerous to live.  :(

Yea saw that film b4 and I think the 109 pilot deserved to live and not get ganged by the p51's. He definably fought for his life to the best of anyone's ability.
"strafing"

Offline Kazaa

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8371
      • http://www.thefewsquadron.co.uk
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2008, 10:29:21 AM »
Ran into this guy in the DA. Could not believe how well it could turn or preform Scissors.

He hit me at every merge and did not think was possible to do against a spit pilot.

At 51 seconds in his wing dips into the ground but he survives to finish me in a turn.

The 51B is over modeled???

http://download40.mediafire.com/fv2wmotzywzg/ejgntdknuwx/51_hoax.ahf

1: Use flaps to help you turn tighter.
2: Use throttle and rudder work to get tighter barrel roll.
3: Stop cutting your turn into his guns, try and chase his tail.
4: Also try to turn out of guns before pulling up into your next barrel roll.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 11:25:58 AM by Kazaa »



"If you learn from defeat, you haven't really lost."

Offline BrockS

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2009, 12:57:41 PM »
See Rule #10
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 01:36:07 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2009, 01:25:50 PM »
How about this from HC with the pony turning inside a 109 and the 109 stalling sooner in the vertical? I feel the 51 is a bit undermodeled myself. Doesn't keep me from flying it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8G3vxLmKE
Anecdotic.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2009, 01:28:28 PM »
How about this from HC with the pony turning inside a 109 and the 109 stalling sooner in the vertical? I feel the 51 is a bit undermodeled myself. Doesn't keep me from flying it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8G3vxLmKE
Aside from digging up an old post...it's not under modeled now...just depends on which version of 109 you're up against.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2009, 01:31:01 PM »
How about this from HC with the pony turning inside a 109 and the 109 stalling sooner in the vertical? I feel the 51 is a bit undermodeled myself. Doesn't keep me from flying it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8G3vxLmKE

If you put a poor pilot in a 109 against an experienced pilot in a P51, the P51 pilot will win, every time. Especially at high altitudes where the performance gap closes.

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Re: proof p-51 is undermodeled...
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2009, 01:34:05 PM »
lol, Ive seen AH P38s do that a dime a dozen.   
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns