Losing a plane because others don't follow the rules

[Squire]

FSOs are going to have rules. So maybe take a deep breath and relax. There are a few ord restrictions in this setup, and there is no alt restriction of any kind. Try reading the orders, they are all 2 paragraphs.

Past that, the issue has been dealt with so pls knock it off now. It's not The End Of Days. 

[Saxman]

Stop putting up these ridiculous rules. CM's know what the plane set is so allow the use of everything available on that plane. These complex rule sets get worse and worse with max altitudes, gun limits, etc. For those who don't have time to consult 20 pages of orders after coming home from work on Friday to fly, please simplify the rules. This he said, she said, show me the film because they broke a rule that needed to be broken is getting to be rather tiring. I really would like to fly these with having to go to law school. My nights are busy enough. Better yet get some decent match ups with aircraft that don’t suck please!

Vlkyrie1

The attitude that you're too busy to read the orders isn't going to win you any friends among the CiCs. In frame one of the last FSO I actually had pilots telling me DIRECTLY that it wasn't for them to read the orders. EXCUSE ME? NO ONE is above understanding what their orders are. It takes five minutes at most to read through them, and most of the time the information is clear, concise, and provides all those little details of what you can't fly or where you can't land (it's frustrating as hell finally winning a frame as CiC, only to have that taken away because however many people couldn't be bothered to read my orders when I specifically stated what bases were open for rearms). If you're too busy for that, maybe you're flying in the wrong arena.

[Anaxogoras]

I agree with Saxman.  In addition, most squads post a version of their orders that only require you to read a  paragraph or two and glance at a map.

These rules are what allow FSO to be a little closer to history.  They are very important.

If these points are too subtle for you, then god help ya in law school.

[humble]

Dantoo,

I'm in no way trying to pick a fight, I've got nothing but respect for both you and your squad. I am/was simply voicing an opinion that you were out of line in this particular instance. The reality is that there is no good way to attack a large escorted buff stream....while the attackers have the edge the combination of 36+ bombers and escorts simply makes totally avoiding fire an impossibility. We only had 6 pilots in the only 109F4 equipped squad for defense of 3 targets. We had little choice but to press in close and make our rounds count. Given the volume of fire it was very hard to identify a particular source. As I did the bob and weave thru the buff stream I had a fire hose of tracer over my left wing at one point...simply assumed it was a hurricane and pressed on to the next buff V. On egress I did in fact have a hurricane on my 6 which Krusty cleared. We approached the buffs the 2nd time from in front and high and curved into bring the front half of the stream back under fire...Krusty got hit (I believe) as we crossed the nose of one formation at high speed and reasonable range (800 or so from my view). Again without knowing for sure I certainly recognize that a good (or lucky) shot from a glass nose might have done him in....but I saw 2 solid nose B-25s dogfighting/HOing over A35 a few minutes later....

I know that our squad (yours and most others) are meticulous in trying to follow the proper load outs etc and I don't feel Krusty was wrong in venting. 

[Dantoo]

Let's throw up a hint for squad COs on man-management.

Put up a mission and have your people join it.  That way, they will take off from the correct field, in the right plane, with the appropriate load out.  There will always be hassles with someone running late, server issues and myriad other little annoyances that can't be dealt with quickly through MOTD or other briefings.

The ten minutes before H00 always seems to bring with them a circus.  By using a mission you can ensure all your people are being looked after and confusion minimised.  You can even display the track to target on the map and one more bonus - they can't join until they've changed to the right country!

When you take off - reload the mission and set the time for H+ 15 minutes.  If somebody discos, all they have to do is rejoin the mission and tell you when they are ready to go.

FSO is meant to be fun. Yes, even for COs and CICs and every now and then, CMs.

[Anaxogoras]

Missions don't allow you to select the appropriate skin, which would be the kiss of seat for lend-lease aircraft in this FSO.

[DrDea]

 We get our orders as soon as they are cut.If your CO XO cant manage that then take on someone that can. We get our load outs covered in the tower and it takes all of 1 minute.You telling me someone cant even get that straight? If someone is showing up to fly 1 minute before the FSO they might want to have someone e mail them the load out and what have you.This "to busy to care " is just lazy BS.Maybe its time to thin the herd some more.

[Masherbrum]

Dantoo wasn't "correct", he was flat out wrong. And his conception of what constitutes good flying in a particular situation isn't relevant either....especially when thats wrong as well. I'm certainly going to favor FQ crossing shots vs rear hemisphere ones when engaging a "glass nose" B-25. Krusty didn't do anything "wrong" BTW, we had made a pass thru the buff stream and I had been engaged by a hurricane, Krusty swung in behind to clear and then we both went to re-engage the bomber stream again. The buffs were low and strung out with significant hurricane 2C escort, no way your going to not expose yourself to some measure of risk. I was looking at the buffs but viewing the log Krusty had 4 kills and I think I had assists on all (out of 9 total assists ) 4 so we were in tandem the entire attack me thinks. Given the reality of "up the tail" runs on a buff formation, 20mm from an escort or a quick dash "in front" of a formation otw to another he made a reasonable choice...unless of course you have a B-25 with a strafer package. I have no idea if in fact he got golden BB'd or strafed but I do know that I to came under fire from more then one solid nose during those same attacks. Regardless of your opinion on Krusty's BBS offerings he's a very good FSO pilot and the logs prove it time and time again. He got 4 kills before this happened, now without confirmation on the "victor"'s loadout the reality of fortunes of war can't be ignored either....but either way Dantoo's comment was ignorant.

Dantoo,

I'm in no way trying to pick a fight, I've got nothing but respect for both you and your squad. I am/was simply voicing an opinion that you were out of line in this particular instance. The reality is that there is no good way to attack a large escorted buff stream....while the attackers have the edge the combination of 36+ bombers and escorts simply makes totally avoiding fire an impossibility. We only had 6 pilots in the only 109F4 equipped squad for defense of 3 targets. We had little choice but to press in close and make our rounds count. Given the volume of fire it was very hard to identify a particular source. As I did the bob and weave thru the buff stream I had a fire hose of tracer over my left wing at one point...simply assumed it was a hurricane and pressed on to the next buff V. On egress I did in fact have a hurricane on my 6 which Krusty cleared. We approached the buffs the 2nd time from in front and high and curved into bring the front half of the stream back under fire...Krusty got hit (I believe) as we crossed the nose of one formation at high speed and reasonable range (800 or so from my view). Again without knowing for sure I certainly recognize that a good (or lucky) shot from a glass nose might have done him in....but I saw 2 solid nose B-25s dogfighting/HOing over A35 a few minutes later....

I know that our squad (yours and most others) are meticulous in trying to follow the proper load outs etc and I don't feel Krusty was wrong in venting.  

You realize you're going on about something that you shouldn't be?    All Dantoo was saying (and I still agree with him), is that the OP should've PM'd/emailed/phone call/etc this to the CM's/a CM/etc.   But it should not have been brought in here.

Dantoo's comment was not "ignorant".   I consider this matter dropped on my end and I'll be winging with my friends in 9 GIAP Friday.  Dantoo is an organized chap.  

[humble]

Dantoo's post was in reaction to the source not the content IMO. I was there, he was not & all of us were caught by surprise. Big difference between a glass nose and a strafer.

[ImADot]

Missions don't allow you to select the appropriate skin

But missions allow a CO to control the airplane and armament for his squad.  And isn't that more important than what your cartoon plane looks like? 

which would be the kiss of seat for lend-lease aircraft in this FSO

  Please translate.

[Anaxogoras]

But missions allow a CO to control the airplane and armament for his squad.  And isn't that more important than what your cartoon plane looks like?  
   Please translate.

Yeah, that was intended as "kiss of death."  Makes absolutely no sense without the "death" part does it.

I do care more that the aircraft have the correct skin for an event like this than if they have the correct loadout.  That's just me though.  The rules are more important than my preferences, but you should be able to remain within the rules and use a skin with red stars on it.  If I were flying axis, and I saw roundels or white and blue stars, it would taint the flavor of the event.  The palm trees are bad enough without adding incorrect aircraft markings.

This dovetails nicely with my beef over substitutions that do not have an appropriate skin, but that's for another thread.

[Saxman]

The palm trees are bad enough...

No worse than windmills and hedgerows in the Pacific

[Nefarious]

Missions don't allow you to select the appropriate skin, which would be the kiss of seat for lend-lease aircraft in this FSO.

After you join the mission, Go to the hangar and choose your Aircraft, load out, and Skin in the Hangar. When the mission sortie choice button pops up on the Clip Board, Just launch from the desired spawn.

Once on the Runway, select Fighter or Attack. You're in the mission, and in the skin of your choice.

If you knew that already, please disregard.  

[Anaxogoras]

I thought the point of a mission was not to give the option of choosing loadouts in the hangar?  I haven't joined a mission in a long while.  Have they changed at all?

[TracerX]

Just skimming through some of the posts here.  The point has been adequately raised, and the CM team is duly vigilant on this issue.  I don't have anything to add except I am looking forward to next week.  Thanks for the discussion.   

Now that this dog is asleep, lets just let it lye.