Author Topic: Looking at buying a plane.  (Read 1851 times)

Offline 68Wooley

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 931
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2009, 11:11:34 AM »
it's a pretty cool little airplane. i think it has the contenintal 105 horse engine in it now.....but have been told it originally had a rotax engine.



The DA-20 C1 has a Continental IO 240 (125 hp) fuel injected engine. The A1 had a Rotax which I believe was 100hp.

Offline Jenks

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 549
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2009, 12:08:02 PM »
I received! a little over 20 intructed hours in a Cherokee around 1975 (never got my ticket) I loved it! It did seem to float and get mushy at touch down, but it didn't bother me. I didn't know any better, flared when I thought I should and held the yoke to my chest untill it touched down.

Maybe some day I'll get my ticket. In the meantime, every few years, I get a wild hair and take one of those $60.00 check rides.
MA  The Flying Circus
     Clown in training

FSO  JG11

Offline mtnman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2438
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2009, 04:06:23 PM »
My favorite fun fly events are rabbit chases with a 172 as rabbit. The guy establishes a flight from point A to B. The gliders will tow up or winch up and fly the same course for best time. Last one in (and someone ALWAYS lands out) buys the beer. Rabbit chases are usually less than 100 miles but club events can be much longer (requiring multiple launches).

And did I mention winch launches are similar to flying off the deck of a CV? Three thousand feet in forty-five seconds! Great stuff even when things dont quite go right. In this video the winch line breaks and the pilot executes a perfect procedure for landing. Check out how quiet gliders are!  NOT! :aok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8FP_MIB7gw&feature=related

Never been in a glider, but I have years of experience with RC gliders, and love them!  The power planes are fun, and they're all I have currently, but the gliders are my favorites!  Ridge soaring in Montana, and thermal soaring here in Wisconsin...
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2009, 07:06:10 PM »
Never been in a glider, but I have years of experience with RC gliders, and love them!  The power planes are fun, and they're all I have currently, but the gliders are my favorites!  Ridge soaring in Montana, and thermal soaring here in Wisconsin...

Ridge soaring is an art in its own right. Here in the south we dont have much in the way of hills so its thermals and waves that we experience. The grandest for me is wave lift but if you like ridge lift... the ASH 25 EB-28 (the plane I wish I could find here) makes a great glider for any style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVsX3CgMoIA
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2009, 01:41:48 AM »
Just an alternative, here is what I have:

Urban Air Samba XXL:



Price tag was about $130,000 new but we got taken a bit, as they do go cheaper brand new.

Depending on how retarded the clerk is during the registration process (I say that in jest!) it can be either a Light Sport, or like ours, a Glider. (Yes, the FAA considers it a type-rated glider!).

As far as figures go, cruising speed is about 120kts, Vne is 140kts, Vfe is 60kts and Vso is PUBLISHED at 25kts, labeled on the airspeed indicator at 40kts, but in all of my experience closer to 15kts in actuality. Engine is a 100hp (I believe, may be 90) Rotax 4 cylinder. Fuel tanks hold 26 gallons and burn 4.5 gallons an hour at 4800rpms (Approximately 120kts in speed). Comes equiped with the usual airspeed indicator, altimeter, Magnetic Variometer, Turn Coordinator, single radio with intercom, electronic flaps and trim, and a ballistic parachute.

From a pilot's perspective, she is a dream to take off (I've never measured, but I would swear she takes off in less than 75feet from a dead stop) and a dream to fly. Incredibly responsive, swift, and an over-powered little crotch-rocket. However, she is the nastiest plane I have ever tried to land, and usually takes people 30-40 hours in the airframe before they feel comfortable landing it. Why is it so hard to land? It floats for frakking ever! You learn to flare before you even cross the threshold and by the time ground effect stops carrying you, you're 100ft down the runway. (Exaggerated, but you get the gist)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 01:44:00 AM by Serenity »

Offline AKHog

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2009, 01:29:40 PM »


Depending on how retarded the clerk is during the registration process (I say that in jest!) it can be either a Light Sport, or like ours, a Glider. (Yes, the FAA considers it a type-rated glider!).

I seriously doubt that this is really registered glider, maybe you are thinking 'motor glider'? Also I believe it can be registered as a motor glider and still qualify under the rules of a Light Sport Aircraft (LSA). That is the new classification by the FAA to allow 'sport pilots' fly light 2 seat aircraft with less training than a private pilot. The way I understand it many existing aircraft do not need to be re-registered to be flown as an LSA by a sport pilot as long as they meet the other requirements. However new aircraft flown as LSA must be registared as either S-LSA (factory built) or E-LSA ('kit' built or restricted to 49% factory built). This is where registration and classifications get confusing, but what else would you expect from the FAA.

As far as buying something, as others have said it can be very expensive.

The cheapest way is to find an E-LSA (Experimental kit built Light Sport Aircraft) on the used market. The reason being is you can take a 16 hour course and do all of the maintenance and inspections yourself, saving a huge amount of money.

For about $25,000 plus about $20 per hour fixed operating costs, you can own and fly something like this Avid 4. This one also has quick folding wings and can be loaded onto a trailer in a few minutes, meaning you can bring it home and put it in the garage or carport and save on hanger fees.


If you want to go the certified route, you will be paying for maintenance and inspections. Also ever few thousand hours you will need to have your certified engine rebuilt, which can cost almost as much as a new engine. For example, to compare this to the $25,000 Avid above, you could buy a Cessna 152 in the $25,000 range, and your hourly operating costs would be roughly $50/hour, over double! That includes putting aside some money every hour to pay for an engine rebuild every 2000 hours (about $15,000).

The upside to buying a certified plane like this is as long as you maintain it, its very unlikely to loose much value. Of course if you want to start talking about spending more money, the options are limitless. However just keep in mind that operating costs will be the major factor in the long run. Fixed operating costs on something simple like a nice late model 172 could be approaching $100 an hour!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 01:33:34 PM by AKHog »
The journey is the destination.

Offline Cougar68

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2009, 03:11:59 PM »
Are Avid kits still in production?  I tried some googling and found a few builder websites but nothing on the availability of kits. 

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2009, 04:44:23 PM »
He has in the past.  It's expensive.

yaknow what?

your posts are almost always informative, and logical.


i'm going to take your advice i think. going to go up with my cfi and check out in the warriors.

as long as i follow the checklists, i should be good to go.  :aok
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2009, 05:16:13 PM »
yaknow what?

your posts are almost always informative, and logical.


i'm going to take your advice i think. going to go up with my cfi and check out in the warriors.

as long as i follow the checklists, i should be good to go.  :aok

Enjoy it!  You'll learn, you'll broaden and you'll gain experience.  Next time you'll want it to be a Mooney or a Cirrus.  Then you'll want to go upside down.  Then you'll...wish you could afford to own your own airplane instead of flying someone elses  :lol

My airplane won't have $50,000 windshield halves though.  :O

Offline Saurdaukar

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8610
      • Army of Muppets
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2009, 05:17:39 PM »
"If it flies, floats or (four letter word for fornicating)s, rent it."

-A much older, and wiser man.

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2009, 05:31:27 PM »
Just an alternative, here is what I have:

Urban Air Samba XXL:

(Image removed from quote.)

Price tag was about $130,000 new but we got taken a bit, as they do go cheaper brand new.

Depending on how retarded the clerk is during the registration process (I say that in jest!) it can be either a Light Sport, or like ours, a Glider. (Yes, the FAA considers it a type-rated glider!).

As far as figures go, cruising speed is about 120kts, Vne is 140kts, Vfe is 60kts and Vso is PUBLISHED at 25kts, labeled on the airspeed indicator at 40kts, but in all of my experience closer to 15kts in actuality. Engine is a 100hp (I believe, may be 90) Rotax 4 cylinder. Fuel tanks hold 26 gallons and burn 4.5 gallons an hour at 4800rpms (Approximately 120kts in speed). Comes equiped with the usual airspeed indicator, altimeter, Magnetic Variometer, Turn Coordinator, single radio with intercom, electronic flaps and trim, and a ballistic parachute.

From a pilot's perspective, she is a dream to take off (I've never measured, but I would swear she takes off in less than 75feet from a dead stop) and a dream to fly. Incredibly responsive, swift, and an over-powered little crotch-rocket. However, she is the nastiest plane I have ever tried to land, and usually takes people 30-40 hours in the airframe before they feel comfortable landing it. Why is it so hard to land? It floats for frakking ever! You learn to flare before you even cross the threshold and by the time ground effect stops carrying you, you're 100ft down the runway. (Exaggerated, but you get the gist)

well, really, if you're on your numbers, you shouldn't float............
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline AKHog

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2009, 05:38:01 PM »
"If it flies, floats or (four letter word for fornicating)s, rent it."

-A much older, and wiser man.

Now that is some damn good advice!  :aok
The journey is the destination.

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2009, 10:26:48 PM »
I seriously doubt that this is really registered glider, maybe you are thinking 'motor glider'?

Yes, and no. It IS considered a motor-glider, but there is no real distinction between motor glider and glider as far as registration, license requirements I believe. However this is definitely registered as a Glider. I've checked several times on the certificates just to be sure. It's probably the only one in the world that ISN'T registered as LSA though lol

Offline Grayeagle

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1488
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2009, 12:23:00 AM »
man .. I *love* flyin different aircraft.
The whole feel of a stick instead of a yoke .. fabric vs metal .. approach and flare differences .. takeoff rolls and departing pattern altitude right after rotation or puttin around for an hour never over 500' AGL .. it's all just amazingly good fun.

Nothin like a CAVU day .. flyin.
Anything.

-GE aka Frank
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Re: Looking at buying a plane.
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2009, 06:52:33 PM »