Author Topic: spit 16 corner speed?  (Read 1516 times)

Offline Ex-jazz

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2009, 04:03:50 PM »
Hi

Maybe a tad off-topic, but any data about the AoA (Angel of Attac)k for these Continuous and Instant turn rates?


Offline moot

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2009, 04:29:36 PM »
You'd have to ask Badboy. He might be able to determine it.  I can't think of a way to.
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Offline tokugawa

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2009, 12:49:11 AM »
Great thread. Great links  :O thx all :salute


Offline moot

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2009, 04:16:15 PM »
Jazz   You might also ask DTango.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2009, 07:31:05 PM »
One thing I believe most players forget with regards to convergence is:

1> Trajectory.  If the conv is set to 650 yards, then the impact at 200-400 are noticably high (most ait to air kills are well under 400yards).

2>the difference in trajectory each caliber has.  Obviously, those fighters with an array of the same caliber guns need not worry about it (P51D w 6/.50 cals, etc).  But aircraft like the 190A-8 with a pair each of 30mm, 20mm, and 13mm prove to be a challange in air to air duels due to the quite different trajectories of the 3 calibers.  Setting the conv out to 650 in a 190A-8 is pointless.  The closer the convergence, the more direct the impact will be, at least between different calibers, from your aircraft to the point of conv.

 
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Offline BiestModus

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2009, 01:55:59 AM »
Ok so I would just like to clarify a few things on here...

The first post asked what the corner velocity of a spit16 was and the response was 160 without flaps. 160 would be the best "sustained" turn speed as stated but this wouldn't be the corner velocity would it? I was under the impression that corner velocity (instantaneous turn) was not the same thing as the sustained turn speed.

If I am correct then when Tokugawa asked for the corner velocity of the spit16 wouldn't it be more in the range of 220? If I monitor my speed and maintain something around 220, isn't that the minimum speed that I can turn at max G's and therefore induce a better turn rate and radius for a limited amount of time (until my airspeed depletes due to G-load)? When I am monitoring my airspeed I guess I am just trying to figure out what speed I should try and maintain to allow the best possible turn performance.

Example: bandit on my 6 with a high closure rate... I want to force him to overshoot by pulling the best possible break turn I can in my AC of choice. In a spit16 for example, would I fly close to 160 or would that number be higher to achieve my desired turn?

Sorry about the long post but I'm new and just trying to come to grips with all that this game offers lol. Any help is appreciated!

-Tsubasa

Offline moot

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2009, 08:38:03 PM »
One thing I believe most players forget with regards to convergence is:

1> Trajectory.  If the conv is set to 650 yards, then the impact at 200-400 are noticably high (most ait to air kills are well under 400yards).
Can you show this with the .target?  Or with film on a relatively slow target?
Ok so I would just like to clarify a few things on here...

The first post asked what the corner velocity of a spit16 was and the response was 160 without flaps. 160 would be the best "sustained" turn speed as stated but this wouldn't be the corner velocity would it? I was under the impression that corner velocity (instantaneous turn) was not the same thing as the sustained turn speed.

If I am correct then when Tokugawa asked for the corner velocity of the spit16 wouldn't it be more in the range of 220? If I monitor my speed and maintain something around 220, isn't that the minimum speed that I can turn at max G's and therefore induce a better turn rate and radius for a limited amount of time (until my airspeed depletes due to G-load)? When I am monitoring my airspeed I guess I am just trying to figure out what speed I should try and maintain to allow the best possible turn performance.

Example: bandit on my 6 with a high closure rate... I want to force him to overshoot by pulling the best possible break turn I can in my AC of choice. In a spit16 for example, would I fly close to 160 or would that number be higher to achieve my desired turn?

Sorry about the long post but I'm new and just trying to come to grips with all that this game offers lol. Any help is appreciated!

-Tsubasa
(Like I said in my first reply) You can find this proper "corner velocity" with Badboy's "bootstrap calculator" that's linked to in the first reply.  In the spit16's case the proper corner velocity is  218 IAS, rate is 34.1 deg/s, and radius is 538 ft; and I did mention sustain corner velocity because it's a significant (i.e. a value not to be neglected) cornering speed in AH tactical circumstances.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 08:44:22 PM by moot »
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Offline boomerlu

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2009, 10:50:12 PM »
Example: bandit on my 6 with a high closure rate... I want to force him to overshoot by pulling the best possible break turn I can in my AC of choice. In a spit16 for example, would I fly close to 160 or would that number be higher to achieve my desired turn?

This would be at around 220 for Spixteen. If you look at the Excel sheet and mess with the numbers, you'll find most aircraft turn tighter at corner velocity than max sustained turn.

Definitions: corner velocity is the slowest speed at which you can pull max Gs. This is also the speed at which you can get the maximum instantaneous turn rate. That is, you will get the max turn rate, but only for a brief second. You can "sustain" corner velocity turn rates by turning nose low so that your speed doesn't fall during the turn.

Practical applications? Energy fighting - you bleed your opponent out of airspeed and energy. Say you are in symmetrical aircraft, both Spit9s. Somehow, whether through initial advantage or energy conserving flying, you are now both on the deck. However, he's turning at his sustained rate while you are flying a loose circle a little above him with enough energy to pull corner. If you time things properly, you can use your energy to pull in for angles to finish the fight. This will be because your higher turn rate will allow you to point your nose more quickly than he can maneuver out of the way. Ideally this would be done at corner velocity, but energy advantage can always be converted to angles.

Best sustained turn rate: this is the speed at which the aeordynamic drag from turning exactly matches the power output of your engine. This means that your turn is "in equilibrium" you are neither gaining nor losing energy assuming you turn level. This turn is always at the edge of stall hence why TnB can be referred to as stall fighting.

Applications: Turn/Angles fighting. If you have the higher turn rate, you'll be able to point your nose and take the shot better.
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Offline BiestModus

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Re: spit 16 corner speed?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 10:33:44 AM »
Thanks a lot boomer for breaking it down I was having some trouble understanding it all. Great post!