RAM greatest questions...Chapter 2

[RAM]

Ok...

its about Engines and their cooling systems...Radial engines used the air flow crossing the banks of cylinders as coolant. Some of them needed more assistance (Fw190s had a cowling fan that increased the airflow in the engine)...

In the Inline engine ,the coolant is a liquid (in first versions was water in later Glycol), that takes the heat from the engine, then is pumped to the Radiators where the air flow cools the coolant, then it returns to the engine and so on...

so far so good ok.

BUT...I guess that the coolant system needed something to pump it...where is that placed in the aircraft?...did any plane on WWII use the natural convection to make the coolant flow?.

In other order of things, in AH when the radiator is hit I suppose it means ANY part of the liquid-cooling system..am I right? if not, will it be introduced?...

I live with the sensation that the minor damage to an inline engine would suppose immediate cooling-leak. I dont see that many coolant leaks in AH, thats why I ask  

Also I noticed that when the radiator is hit, the Temperature gauge doesnt shot an increase,when it should go out of scales. Same with oil leaks...oil pressure always is the same ,with oil leaks or without them.

Would be helpful to see them working to have a notion on how much will your engine be alive before stopping  

thanks in advance for the input  

[Vermillion]

RAM its called a water pump   And I've changed one or two in my life (in a car)

On a car, it is located near the bottom of the engine, usually towards the front, and it works of the power of the engine itself.

I assume (but could always be wrong) its very much the same on an aircraft.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Chewbacca]

Loss of coolant on one of these inline engines resulted in almost instant engine failure.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Ok...  

its about Engines and their cooling systems...Radial engines used the air flow crossing the banks of cylinders as coolant. Some of them needed more assistance (Fw190s had a cowling fan that increased the airflow in the engine)...

In the Inline engine ,the coolant is a liquid (in first versions was water in later Glycol), that takes the heat from the engine, then is pumped to the Radiators where the air flow cools the coolant, then it returns to the engine and so on...

so far so good ok.

BUT...I guess that the coolant system needed something to pump it...where is that placed in the aircraft?...did any plane on WWII use the natural convection to make the coolant flow?.

In other order of things, in AH when the radiator is hit I suppose it means ANY part of the liquid-cooling system..am I right? if not, will it be introduced?...

I live with the sensation that the minor damage to an inline engine would suppose immediate cooling-leak. I dont see that many coolant leaks in AH, thats why I ask  

Also I noticed that when the radiator is hit, the Temperature gauge doesnt shot an increase,when it should go out of scales. Same with oil leaks...oil pressure always is the same ,with oil leaks or without them.

Would be helpful to see them working to have a notion on how much will your engine be alive before stopping  

thanks in advance for the input  

 Some planes used natural convection. It was found that it worked quite well enough to keep the engine cool and reduced maintence.
However I believe this was only in early aircraft because radiator ducting became to complex for natural convection to work.

- Jig

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
Loss of coolant on one of these inline engines resulted in almost instant engine failure.

Thats not 100% true. At high throttle and constant running, yes...but...

There is a story of a 363rd P-51 pilot who lost his radiator to ground fire just inside the coast of France. At this point he climbed while he could, watching the temprature gauge. When it started to get hot he cut it off, and glided till it cooled again, and repeated this until making it all the way back to the British coast before he ditched.

But this is squadron lore an whether it happened or not, I dunno.

I personally don't see how you get an engine block cool enough between climb and glide to keep it from seizing.

- Jig

[funked]

I doubt he lost all his coolant Jig.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by funked:
I doubt he lost all his coolant Jig.

It's my opinion this was a lil story made up by that pilot to keep his butt outta trouble...the whole bottom of the plane disentigrated when he ditched, so they never found whether he had combat damage or not. Apparently the guy had broken off to chase a Fw just over the coast and ended up low. It was rumored that the Fw managed to get around on him and scared him silly, to the point where when he saw land the first thing he did was nose it in.

I heard it from my neighbor, a B-17 pilot, whose brother flew P-51's (He was tall, his brother was short  ) and told him. It's kinda a handed around story, but it was fun listening to him tell it  

- Jig

[fdiron]

Heres a story I read in a book about P51s.  A p51 pilot was flying over france or germany and got hit in the radiator by ground fire.  He started losing cooling fluid.  So anyways he reduces throttle and starts pumping raw fuel into his engine by pumping the primer pump handle beside his seat.  He made it back to his base without any injuries, except a very sore hand.

[mx22]

Can someone explain to me how is radiator related to pumping fuel into the engine. I thought you pump fuel in engine for it work, not to get cool

mx22

[Staga]

Once I learned that too lean mixture can really burn a hole to your pistons.
 
So if you use over-rich mixture the extra fuel absorbs heat in engine IF it doesnt have enough oxygen to burn ?

[Downtown]

As I continue to read America's 100,000 all the liquid cooled plane pilots pretty much state that the U.S. aircraft could absord a tremendous amount of damage and still fly.  Pilots often rammed other aircraft with the P-40 and flew it home.  P-40 and P-47 Pilots pretty much testify that if the engine was running you could get home.

Conversely of the P-40.  Many pilots said that they always feared a coolant leak, because the engine would stop very rapidily with a coolant leak. (P-47 not a problem and apparently you could run a P-47 engine with two heads gone.)

The Mustang was more subject to coolant leaks because the radiators were mounted mid aircraft and with the additional plumbing was more suceptable (sp?) to damage (especially ground fire.)

It cost me $48.00 but its a great book.

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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[Jekyll]

fdiron, FYI the P51 pilot in question was John T Godfrey, of the 4th Fighter Group.

Here's the extract:

"Godfrey pulled up to 2000 feet and his Mustang began bleeding glycol profusely.

Godfrey's voice was wavy.  He said, "This is Johnnie.  Afraid I'll have to bail out.  Best of luck to you".

Godfrey jettisoned the canopy so he could bail out.  Glover came back sharply:  "Don't jump Johnnie!  Don't jump.  Just hold your water now, lemme tell you waht to do".
"Okay, Freddie"
"You can make it.  Are your r.p.m.s falling?"
"No".
"Well, stick to it Golly-geeit!  Start pumping that primer and don't stop for hell.  Pump that primer handle. Pump it!"
Godfrey commenced pumping, though for the moment he wasn't sure why.  This sent raw gas into the pistons; raw gas doesn't burn as fas and thus doesn't give off as much heat as the explosive lean mixture.  The glycol stopped leaking, the temperature receded".

Godfrew made it back to England.  The interesting thing is that he was shot down the following day by flak over a Berlin airfield.

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps

[funked]

"Pilots often rammed other aircraft with the P-40 and flew it home."

Just how often?  I've never heard of this, except for a few crazy Ivans!

FWIW The Germans raved about the durability of their fighters also.  There are many stories about the 190, coming home with cylinders missing, big holes in the wing, etc.  And Franz Stigler once brought a 109 home with 82 holes from the 50 cal guns of US bombers.  Try that in AH...

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-08-2000).]

[StSanta]

Heh, in AH, the 109 (and I gather most aircraft) are very susceptible to damage from buff guns.

Normally, if the enemy ping me, I either have to bail or rtb with engine out.



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime